"raunchydog" wrote: > Vaj, Your superior tone is nothing more than delusions grandeur. You think you know about TM. You don't. By the way when and where did you do TTC? Did you ever teach anyone TM? Where and when was that? If you're a TM teacher, as Judy says you claim, you've seriously fallen off the wagon. Answer straight up or expose yourself as a fraud.
Phihhh on any notion of a "trained TM teacher." I did eight months of TTC, many ATRs, two SCI one-monthers in Arcata, and in all that time I never met a TB who was convincingly clear about the tenets of the TM technique. Everyone was comfortable with ADDING TO the "checking notes instructions" their own twist when it came to sussing out the philosophy behind the technique. In the field, when I would watch other teachers give a first lecture, I would -- almost always -- cringe deeply at something they said. Here's the bottom line about becoming a TM teacher -- a so-called expert exponetent of reality: you are merely tested on the checking notes and the puja mechanics and NEVER tested on your understanding of the philosophy. Hell, you're given the mantras, but no one ever checks if you've memorized them or are able to pronounce them as Maharishi taught them. There's no final exam about effortlessness or any other core concept of the TM POV. And, even here at FFL we see long time meditators and long time initiators disagreeing with one another about effortlessness. The movement never offered a "Doctor of TM Philosophy in consciousness dynamics" program, and the seven step teaching program doesn't try to inculcate clarity in the meditators. "Just do this and don't ask any questions" is the basic TMO presentation. I find Vaj's nuancing a GREAT BIG HELP in that I have to come to a higher clarity to either agree or disagree with his statements. He's no push over, and it will take precision wording to go toe to toe with him. Most of the naysayers who are contending that TM is effortless no matter what Vaj "comes up with," are not listening to him and grasping his POV well enough to come back at him, and instead, are content to fall back on memorized text from Maharishi to be the Vaj-countering argument. To me, this thread is woefully needing a scholar to come forth and do proper battle with Vaj about what constitues "effort." He's given some very clear statements that might be right or wrong, but they're precise and draw a well defined line in the sand. Others are merely kicking sand on his line instead of drawing their own lines and defending that their lines are more apt drawn. To me there never was a TM teacher of any philosophical merit -- all teachers were sent into the world without clarity or "scholarship about consciousness" credentials. To me, it now seems that Maharishi let us all go out and be preachers of any nonsense as long as we sent the money to him and didn't obviously espouse anti-TM constructs. And, don't forget, there was no IQ test given to those that went to TTC -- by the bell curve alone, we know that some teachers were dim-wits who could NEVER get enough intellectual clarity about the technique to debate Vaj -- call them Trotakacharya types if you will, but they HAD to strictly stay with the checking notes when any questions came from the peanut gallery. So, if Vaj did go to TTC, it is easy to see him as "just another teacher being churned out by the TTC machine" who eventually came into his own philosophy that lead him to abandon the technique. If he'd been, er, "brainwashed better during TTC," he may have been blinkered enough to use his rationalization powers to keep being in denial about TM. Thankfully, I'm in the Advaita camp, and anything to do with meat-robot mechanics is always a secondary concept compared to the importance of ending ANY identification process. The TM technique has one identifying with the mantra until the mantra dissolves into the "noise" of other mental experiences. Awareness is never INCREASED -- and instead, the mantra's existence is sensed more easily even when the cacophony of other mentation would normally wash it out like a fire engine's blaring does to "other traffic noises." This is not a process of increasing awareness -- it is a process of training one's ability to attend to the least excitations of mentality. See the difference? One is always entirely endowed with awareness -- there's no more awareness to be gained -- it is the USE of attention-identification that is practiced. When one comes back to the mantra, generally it is at a higher energy level than "when one last experienced the mantra," but it is not a bigass loudly said mantra as it is when the eyes are first closed. Thus, one gets jiggy with putting the attention on the nuancing of "how loudly am I thinking a thought," by practicing the taking of the mantra at all levels of excitation. Right now your elbow is talking to you, but you've been ignoring it while reading these words -- only now does your attention get placed upon the elbow's message -- see? -- you're targeting a subtle experience with precsion attentioning -- an experience that was being IGNORED ON PURPOSE! Just so, do we practice seeing the mantra in the midst of many other messages that are available to our minds if we but attend to them, but we practice IGNORING THE MILIEU OF MENTATION. Amness -- the buzz of OM -- is the quietest level of excitation -- get your mind able to target that experience, and you've got a mind that is prepared to finally jump out of reality and attend to non-attention, the Absolute. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" <raunchy...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > > > > On Mar 28, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Vaj wrote: > > > > > >>> This is not like any other thought. The level of mantra repetition > > >>> where mantra continues continuously like a spontaneous thought > > >>> actually is ajapa-japa: no effort or smriti, just constant ongoing > > >>> awareness of mantra 24/7/365. > > >>> > > >> > > >> WRONG. "When we become aware that we are not thinking the mantra, > > >> then we quietly come back to the mantra. Very easily we think the > > >> mantra and if at any moment we feel that we are forgetting it, we > > >> should not try to persist in repeating it. Only very easily we > > >> start and take it as it comes and do not hold the mantra if it > > >> tends to slip away." > > > > > > > > > My god, don't you guys ever get tired > > > of this boring crap? > > > > > > Yes, I do. It's probably time for a TM and mantra meditation FAQ. But > > since RD's relatively new here, I thought I'd help dispossess her of > > some of the fictions she's acquired with so little independent > > thought. But, yeah, it's like having to watch an old grump wake up. > > Some never really do, but instead cling to their illusions. > > > > Vaj, Your superior tone is nothing more than delusions grandeur. You think you know about TM. You don't. By the way when and where did you do TTC? Did you ever teach anyone TM? Where and when was that? If you're a TM teacher, as Judy says you claim, you've seriously fallen off the wagon. Answer straight up or expose yourself as a fraud. >
