Fair enough. I accept that your snark was intended as a snarky joke; I probably reacted to it because we hold different assumptions about a couple of concepts.
The first is that I don't accept what you and others have referred to as "waking up" on this forum as synonymous with enlightenment. Literally *all* of the experiences presented and discussed here over the years I would class as minor awakenings, not enlightenment. This includes any of my own that I have ever discussed, and any discussed by, say, Tom Traynor. It *certainly* includes any discussed by, say, Rory or Jimbo or lesser illuminaries. This is not to dump on the experiences per se, just to say that I (and, seemingly, Vaj) have very different standards for what constitutes enlightenment than Fairfielders seem to. The second concept on which we might differ is about "nudges," as you describe them. While I certainly admit that they exist, and have experienced such "nudges" myself, I tend to think of them as "Dumbo's feather." That is, placebos. I see such "nudges" as ways to trick the person into realizing what is already present, and has always already been present. I'm not a big one for "shakti" in particular, because I have experienced what most call shakti and know it for what it really is, the "pushing out" of occult energies. Yeah, you get a rush from that, and the rush can push someone "over the edge" into the realization of what has always already been present, but my experience is that such realizations tend to be fleeting, and don't last. The seeker who "wakes up" as a result of a good toke on someone's shakti is more often than not the first in line the next time the "shakti-giver" comes to town, hoping for another toke. I also have a little less respect for the NeoAdvaita approach than many, for similar reasons. I have seen very, very few examples of such "awakenings" lasting any longer than a few days. YMMV. I *understand* that your experience may suggest to you that some traditional approaches to self discovery are "treadmills," and they might well be. But your snark was -- to me -- in the same ball- park as someone suggesting that no gays want to go to heaven, otherwise they wouldn't be stuck on a treadmill that leads straight to Hell. That's pretty absolutist. If anyone were stupid enough to suggest that to your face, you might have words with them. :-) But you essentially suggested the same sort of thing about Buddhism -- that it led nowhere, and that anyone who pursues it will get nowhere. That may well be. Unlike Jed McKenna, I don't claim to know. All that I know is that I have been under- whelmed for some time by the places that the FF "wake up" groups have led them. They *do not map* to the descriptions of enlightenment I hold to be somewhat accurate (as accurate as descriptions in words can ever be, that is). Again, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "j_alexander_stanley" <j_alexander_stan...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" <dhamiltony2k5@> wrote: > > > > > > Figure also that the TM movement is culturally so > > > pre-disposed against what they see as buddhist > > > meditations. A profound pre-disposition that is > > > defined from the Transcendental Meditation second > > > lecture that is always given to people as they would > > > start TM. > > > > Exactly. What was shocking about Alex's snark was > > that he didn't know how bigoted it was. I'm *never* > > surprised when Nabby spouts eltist nonsense he's > > been taught it by the TMO, but *Alex*? > > As Rick pointed out, there are quite a number of people who have woken up in FF. What seems to often be the case is that after decades on the TM treadmill, people need an outside, non-TM nudge to knock them off the treadmill and into freedom. FF seems to attract the appropriate nudges, and Doug's list seemed to indicate that Buddhism wasn't one of them. Since one of the prevailing themes of FFL (thanks in no small part to you) is beating up on other spiritual traditions, I cracked a snarky little joke about it. > > I am surprised by your reaction, though. For someone who has spent well over a decade, constantly bashing other spiritual seekers and traditions, I would think that a comment like mine would have rolled off like water off a duck's back, not even worthy of a comment. > > I have no particular animosity towards Buddhism outside not being terribly impressed by FFL's Buddhist presence. Jed McKenna describes Buddhism as basically just another treadmill on which to do time, and I can see how that might be the case, Adyashanti being a notable exception. >
