--OK, sounds reasonable enough; but no more a cage than Norbu Rinpoche's except that he's obviously closer to being what/whom Carlos Casteneda called an "impeccable person". I wouldn't use that expression as a description of MMY; but even some of the "Rinpoches" are rumored to have certain faults. Just my opinion,....but since no single Guru seems to have a one-stop shop for all the goodies, I prefer the Smorgasboard approach: techiques + doses of religion from Buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity along with Santeria. I use the Santeria (Spaniard term for a Spirit-oriented religion of West Africa which became Syncretized and evolved into Voodoo, Macumba, etc.) quite a bit a work to put hexes on people. Works quite well but takes a lot of effort. "no pain, no gain",...but animal sacrifices are out of the question. Speaking of animals, that Yale lab suspect who may have killed Annie Le, the initial rumor was that he was displeased over her treatment of the laboratory rats.
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradh...@...> wrote: > > > On Sep 18, 2009, at 3:37 PM, yifuxero wrote: > > > ---right, but you seem to be saying that since the TC...etc. model > > isn't "really" universal; it never happens. But nobody knows for > > sure,...we certainly can't rely on the MUM statistics. > > Well that's a separate point from what I'm saying. What I'm pointing > out is that it's common in people who've accepted the TC-CC-GC-UC > model of awakening as real, and solidified that as the way > consciousness evolves, whenever they look at other ways of awakening > (in this case different saints) they project the solidified idea-- > which is being perceived consciously or unconsciously as an "absolute" > model--onto an often very different way of awakening. > > At the same time, some awakeners who solidified their belief in the TC- > CC-GC-UC model will reify their awakening within the acquired cage > they've accepted as real or even absolute, often without ever > realizing it. The dead giveaway is when you understand that MMY's > terms do to a certain extent parallel actual yogic and Vedantic > awakening paths that are already very well established, but he only > describes them in part. When you realize a certain awakener is > expressing their awakening solely within what "Maharishi said", it can > become clear they're up against an acquired cage (without even > "realizing" it). > > > It might happen, now and then. JJ seemed to describe the complete > > transition, having claimed to be in CC at one time, then later > > giving lectures on GC and UC speaking from what appeared to be first > > hand experience. > > Now if one compares this "progressive" model with various "immediate > > Enlightenment" paths; we have to first identify which Gurus/Schools > > are promoting the immediate model vs progressive. Some of the > > "immediates" would include.... > > > > 1. Dzogchen in general and in particular your Guru Norbu Rinpoche > > Relatively speaking the Dzogchen path is a sudden path, but most > Dzogchen teachers will also teach of the other aspects of the 9 > darshanas generally practiced in that system at the same time, which > are more gradual paths. This is helpful since there may be certain > aspects of our on-going awakening that may be better integrated in > other ways than a sudden one. > > > 2. Various other Gurus as mentioned by Ken Wilbur including those > > who were first "immediates" such as Adi Da aka Franklin Jones - who > > changed his tune after a number of years when that approach wasn't > > working. > > That is a very interesting case. I'm not sure what to make of Bubba. > Not my cuppa tea, although I enjoyed some of what he said and some of > his scene. > > > 3. Ramana Maharshi - seems to have bypassed all stages at once, > > according to his own account, then entering UC on his Enlightenment > > day, 7-17-1896. But this type of experience may be so rare as to be > > virtually unheard of. > > That's not my understanding, but then I'm no expert on Ramana. It was > my understanding he had achieved considerable yogic mastery prior--as > had other later advaitins like Nisargadatta, who was a Nath. > > Ramana, per what I recall, would often go into samadhi for days and > days at a time--but not progressing completely, until some friend told > him to focus on the makara, the upper "third eye". > > > ... > > Some progressives > > Sri Aurobindo gives a more popular account of a progression through > > GC. > > > > Sri Ramakrishna mentions "going into Samadhi"; but later mentions > > complete realization of the Self (as if he possibly spent a number > > of years being engaged in various subtle experiences). > > > > But there's a glitch here, Vaj. Taking the "immediate Enlightenment" > > school, just be cause a Guru tauts that approach, who's to say taht > > the beginning practitioners don't go through the TC...etc stages? > > Dzogchen seems to be a conceptual model that may or may not pan out > > according to the ideal model. > > All I'm saying is it's foolish IMO to attach absolute, universal or > perennial qualities to any sequence of awakening and solidify it as > real and then try to project that onto other awakenings in very > different schools. It's really a rather self-centered way-of-seeing IMO. >
