--- What he meant, Vaj is 1. Once the person has attained Unity (or, if you will, realized one's Prior, innate, transcendental Self); there's no more evolution in that category. Now, saying "MMY didn't attain Unity" is what you're saying?...then you should provide the evidence. You're far better at making outrageous, false, claims than providing evidence for some positive assertion of your own. So let's hear it....I'm waiting..... I'll go first. We can point to MMY's early lectures, say Lake Louise, 1968; in which he clearly outlines the 7 "Stages" or levels (whatever terms one wishes to use). Obviously, from an Advaitic pov, such "levels" are delusional and one can alternatively appeal to a "direct" path, bypassing all talk about the "stages". Nevertheless, talking about stages serves a useful purpose since people (TM'ers may experience directly what MMY is referring to)...or may not. In any event, there are advantages to talking about stages instead of the Neo-Advaitic approach (you're already the Self, blah, blah...). Then, we have the testimony of various close followers of MMY. I've questioned many of these people (long ago) and can use their experiences as pointers to MMY's full attainment of the Self. To use an analogy, if one kid says, "I can count to 50", and another says, "I can count to 75", etc and they all say, "So and So can count to 100", then this is good circumstantial evidence of a progression. In the case of TC, CC, GC, UC, these are discrete types of quantum jumps so to speak: like electrons jumping from one orbit to another, set in the midst of an ongoing progression when the whole field of relative existence is "transcended" - according to MMY's descriptions in the books, lectures, and especially the tapes which you helped uncover...indicating the Kundalini sign posts along the way. Your Guru Norbu has none of any talk about such signposts. That's his particular "direct" pov. Fine, but MMY does, and all such lines of circumstantial evidence point to his realization of the Self; beyond which there is no "other", or "additional" level. In the face of such a large body of evidence (and don't forget the accounts of people like Jerry J, Walter Koch, and others); the claim has been made and supported. He's fully Self-Realized not WAS. IS!, wherever "he" exists now in some subtle form. Now you have made a contradictory claim. What's your evidence? (HA!...didn't think so.). ... Now in regard to the other contributors statement, re: many "levels", obviously what he meant was levels of relative appreciation, since once the Self has been realized, there's the infinity of relative existence to appreciate. Looking at the statements of Self-Realized Gurus from diverse Traditions, their "levels" of appreciation of the finer levels of existence seem to differ quite a lot. Thus far, no Super-Guru has appeared on the scene who (apparently) is able to provide a complete description of the subtle Heavens and their inhabitants. Some of the Buddhists provide glimpses of (say), the Pure Land, but Hindus may give an account of Hindu-related Heavens. No Super-Guru has yet appeared on the scene with a complete picture of the geography of inner space. Certainly not your Guru Norbu Rinpoche. He's a rank amateur.
negative FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradh...@...> wrote: > > > On Sep 25, 2009, at 6:59 PM, Vaj wrote: > > > On Sep 25, 2009, at 4:07 PM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: > > > >> Yes, you can have good experiences the first day you start, but we > >> all know what happens. Whatever level of the transcendent you get > >> ensconced in and think you're enlightened in, there's always > >> another level of the transcendent to bite you in the butt and tell > >> you that you've hardly even started yet. > > > > > > Now there's a quote worth keeping. > > > > Jai Doug Hamilton and his wise friend! > > > > May we all continuously transcend the imagined transcendent. Like > > looking through a glass onion, "there's always another level of the > > transcendent to bite you in the butt and tell you that you've hardly > > even started yet." > > "I told you 'bout the fool on the hill? > I tell you man he's living there still!" > > -John Lennon >
