--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_re...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mahavid3h" <uzy_9@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Deal with the original question. WHY is enlightenment the > > > > highest goal in life? > > > > Because one chooses to have it? A goal is always something > > subjective, there is nothing objective about it. > > Yes, but why *that* goal? Why consider it the > "highest" goal?
These are actually 2 questions: 1)Why enlightenment? 2)Why a highest goal? Below you actually argue that you have no issue with Nr.1 only with Nr. 2, correct? <snip> > > So do you object for people to have a certain ideal at all? > > Not at all. > > > Or do you think that enlightenment is so much beyond thought > > and concepts, that having it as an ideal is a contradiction > > in terms? > > Not at all. > > My concern is not with the enlightenment or having > it as a goal in life, but with the use of the term > and the concept "highest goal." Okay, I will try to deal with it. First I must say, that this formulation 'Enlightenment as highest goal' is not from me, and I would formulate it differently, but never mind, I clearly subscribe to a hierarchical order of ideals. That is I would say, that enlightenment is higher in order than others. > > > In both cases you would be holding ideals as well maybe more > > hidden. > > Yes, the straw man you were talking to might. :-) It's not a straw man, I am just pointing out intellectual choices as I see them. I think the second one was nailing it, if you look at the end of the post. <snip> > > This relativistic belief is just another belief and another > > IDEA about life. Why do you actually care what people believe? > > I don't, except out of curiosity. Okay, > > > OTOH, if you take the relativistic > > approach, I can only ask, Who cares? People have ideas/ > > ideals and they will always have, which makes them going. > > What does it matter if you have, or you don't? > > It probably doesn't. Okay. > > Now about that enlightenment is the highest goal > in life thing. Why "highest?" You've made a case > above for it being *A* goal in life, but why *The* > goal in life? Why "the highest?" Again, its not my formulation, but I think that a hierarchical order of goals and ideals in life is very natural. You take an example from computer science, you mention relational Databases as an example. But take other examples like user management, you have to have an administrator or root. Take process management, you have to asign different priorities to processes, and asign each process a specific amount of ram. And I don't believe you have no order or hierarchy of goals yourself, you may not admit it, or may not be aware of it. I guess you too have 'priorities' in your life, first among probably to sustain life itself. Below it, so to say dependend are other goals, like having and caring for food, having a job to sustain yourself, fulfilling the tasks asigned to you as you job, interacting with you boss or any other superior, etc. They are dependend on the overall goal of sustaining your life. Another goal you probably have is living comfortably and having fun, joy or a general sense of well-being. So my contention is that it is natural to have goals, and that it is also equally natural to have priorities about them. > Maybe it's just being a computer nerd, but I can > multitask when it comes to goals. Well I think many of us can do that. Its like in process management. Still you asign priorities and 'resources' to each task. > I can have lots > of them, all going on at the same time. We all have. > I rank > none of them as "highest," because they "swap out" > so often and shift around. I think one crucial difference may be, to hold an ideal in ones mind. You probably still have lots of ideals you don't really hold in your mind, but they pop up, when necessary, like sustaining life, and right afterwards, your overall feeling of wellbeing, and anything subordinate to them. But they all have to do with sustaining the 'I'. If you think beyond the 'I', you are already in the field of 'enlightenment', religion, transcendence, God however you may call it. Once people discover there is an area beyond the little 'I' , they asign priorities to it. If someone has had an experience about this, a spiritual experience or a religious one, I think it's quite normal to do so. I don't have to of course :-) > Enlightenment is some- > where on that list of goals for me; currently I > think it's number 17. Which means you too have a hierarchy of ideals, just that the hierarchy is changing once in a while. And it is obvious, that you feel like a rebel, who likes to challenge 'Beliefs'. But I think it is more courageous to challenge one's own beliefs, than those of others. It is more difficult in fact to understand and accept the beliefs of others. :-) > Why is enlightenment number 1 for you? I didn't formulate it that way.
