--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_re...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mahavid3h" <uzy_9@> wrote: <snip> > > Below you actually argue that you have no issue with > > Nr.1 only with Nr. 2, correct? > > Not correct, on a nitpick. I'm not "arguing."
Incorrect nitpick. First definition of "argue" in my dictionary: "to give reasons for or against something : REASON" <snip> > The *presentation* of enlightenment as the highest > *possible* goal, with no other goal being as "high" > or as worthy, is what I have an issue with. I've > seen this piece of dogma ruin lives as people got > so "into" the pursuit of enlightenment as the only > goal in life worth pursuing that they turned into > total flakes and lost all touch with reality. But this is not, of course, the fault of the "dogma." Plenty of people accept the "dogma" and follow it in ways that enrich and expand their lives. <snip> > > > > In both cases you would be holding ideals as well > > > > maybe more hidden. > > > > > > Yes, the straw man you were talking to might. :-) > > > > It's not a straw man, I am just pointing out intellectual > > choices as I see them. > > And arguing with someone who never made those choices > and never even hinted at saying the things you attrib- > uted to him in your mind, as if he had really said > them. I see. :-) Translation: Barry's getting a little anxious here because mahavid is making points he can't easily refute. mahavid didn't do anything like what Barry claims. > > Again, its not my formulation, but I think that a hierarchical > > order of goals and ideals in life is very natural. > > That is your right. I disagree. Do I have the right > to disagree? Did mahavid ever even remotely *hint* otherwise? Yesterday I pointed out that Barry tries to portray even the most dispassionate, reasoned disagreements as "attachment" or "emotional," in an ad hominem attempt to devalue them. Now he's trying other ways to do that without using those terms--in this case, by falsely suggesting that mahavid has indicated that Barry doesn't have the right to disagree. <snip> > > And I don't believe you have no order or hierarchy of goals > > yourself, you may not admit it, or may not be aware of it. > > Is this another one of those "If I claim you believe it > you believe it" things, like making up ideas, claiming > I've said them, and then arguing against them as if I > had? You've really got a thing for doing this, dude. :-) mahavid has never done that. S/he's simply saying s/he isn't convinced Barry has no hierarchy of goals. Does s/he have the right not to find his protestations convincing? <snip> > > I think one crucial difference may be, to hold an ideal > > in ones mind. > > Why would you want to do that? Didn't Maharishi > explicitly warning against this practice as > "dividing the mind?" I heard him say many times > that one should just work on the task at hand > with full attention. In fact, MMY talked about keeping principles "lively in the mind"--his "behavioral rasayanas," for example, which would certainly qualify as ideals. <snip> > I am suggesting that people "prioritize" these so- > called spiritual or religious experiences as "higher" > NOT because they really are, but because they've been > TOLD that they are. Or because they experience them as such. Have you ever noticed that anything a person says that involves disagreement with something Barry believes, he attributes to its having been "told" or "taught" to them? That's yet another way Barry attempts to devalue others' positions without actually dealing with their validity. <snip> > > > Why is enlightenment number 1 for you? > > > > I didn't formulate it that way. > > Formulate it some other way. If you feel like it. Again, > I'm not trying to sell you anything or convince you of > anything. I'm just rapping, throwing out ideas just for > the fuck of it. There is no...dare I say it...goal > going on for me in doing this rapping. The goal, as in all such discussions initiated by Barry, is to elicit a response he can throw brickbats at. I doubt anyone here would contend that throwing brickbats is not Barry's no. 1 priority on FFL.
