--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@...> wrote: >fulleru > I get it - thanks for writing more about it. No more what I call ego > maintenance thoughts.
For me, that's part of it, but it depends on how deeply and widely one personally defines ego. A line from a Dylan song I have always liked "she knows too much to argue or to judge." A very cool and wise woman. And I have found these, among other things, are ego sustainers. One may judge others to i) put them down and to contrast with self, that is "whew, at least I am not as F'ed up as him/her". Or as role model, they have something I don't "I want to be like them", etc. And arguments (vs exploratory discussions where parties are after fuller understanding or seek to respectfully share information) are often the dynamic of seeking confirmation that "my ideas are great and valid, my POV is great and valid" (and thus I am great and valid). And ego being inately tied to "me and mine", that a threat to "my" ideas are a threat to me, so I will argue forever and a day about how good and valid my ideas are, relentlessly seek everyones confirmation of that, so that my ego is well, alive and thriving. And combine this with judging "AND my ideas are so superior to yours, you dumbshit, I am so much better than you and your dumbshit ideas". I sensed when I brought up the topic of thoughtlessness, now and in the past, that there was a perhaps a natural defensiveness that "Ok, right, I don't have ego thoughts, but I have lots of other thoughts and they are really great and this thoughtlessness crap doesn't apply to these great ideas of MINE". My take is that these thoughts are the more deeply rooted ego thoughts. "All thoughts are bums" is my take. They are all intruders. Sometimes valid and necessary, but still bums. Panhandlers begging for Awareness. To stop the habit of begging, I find its healthy and helpful to just ignore most thoughts as something "other", as smudges and stains of congealed Awareness. And those that have a utilitarian function, let them into the house, but make them wipe their feet of their mud and usher them out as soon as their work is done. Don't get all "Ah MY cable repairman is SO great, I am so great because I have a great cable repairman". Thoughts have nothing to do with ones inner silence and stillness. Another component of the "mine" / ego nexus is that feeling (often not consciously dealt with) that it is essential for the universe that I express my unique, wonderful and insightful ideas. Because my ideas are SO GREAT (as am I by implication.) A further dimension is the feeling and sense that a future state (or past state) will bring, or has the potential to bring, more contentment and happiness than what I have RIGHT NOW. That is, the notion that the grass is always greener on the other side of the time fence (or location fence). SO MUCH thought is wasted on micro tuning and managing how to find that more satisfying next or other moment. But "but man, tomorrow never Happiness is never "out there, later". Its right here, right now. All these things are ultimately ego related. However, I observe that many often have a narrower sense of ego and its manifestations. (Which of course makes me special, ha!) I see the distinction as one of non-attachment, to anything. This state of mind can't be consciously cultivated, but occurs naturally as a result of sadhana. If non-attachment is here, then as you say, life is appreciated moment by moment in a fresh way. > > Many folks in waking state try to approximate this freshness by moving around > constantly or exposing themselves to new objective and subjective material > experiences (why travel and roller coasters and drugs, for example, are so > popular). Once it settles in though, non-attachment becomes almost funny in > that the thoughts and experiences turn to teflon vs. glue. Day to day > experience brings a newness and freshness to it ongoing that gross material > changes cannot come close to. Simply we become truly ourselves and begin > consistently enjoying the hell out of life. > (48) > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > Maybe we (you and others) are saying a similar thing, maybe not. > > > > My use of the term "thoughtless" might be misinterpreted from the state I > > am referring to. I thought "thoughtless" was a bit of a delicious and > > ironic term -- with the second or third nunanced background wave of meaning > > reflecting the humorous image of the realized being "thoughtless" as in not > > considerate of others. And those of a more bound nature as being thoughtful > > (considerate), and writing thoughtful posts (well considered, reasoned, > > digested, even wise). > > > > My sense of humor and irony aside, the state is not a permanent thoughtless > > state. Ebill said something like if thoughtless state was the thing, then > > lots of dull sort of folks are realized. And I will add pot smokers. Or > > those partaking a bit to much irish whiskey. Or simply deep sleep. All such > > can produce a thoughtless state, the first and last from dullness, the > > others by temporarily restructuring the pathways of awareness. These are > > not the state I am referring to. > > > > What I am referring to is the ability and nature of the mind to sit in its > > own nest, a collapsed wave, no choppy waters. Along with the > > characteristic of a full powerful well shaped wave arising when an external > > need arises (a work project, a question, etc.) A core state utterly still > > waters, then rising into large waves, fluctuations when called upon. But no > > internal need or impetus for the generation of thoughts. A clear waters > > type state of mind, like a stil, glassy lake when there is no breeze. No > > thought for an hour might be the norm, then a single clear fluxuation to > > meed a need. Like a store keeper. Silent behind the counter for some time. > > then sprining to life when needed to serve and help a customer. No need to > > be pacing around, tapping fingers, and all. Just stillness, sitting behind > > the counter. > > > > This is in contrast to everyday minds that rarely settle down, and have > > constant choppy waters, the internal vasanatic breeze constantly causing > > ripples and turblulence. Mind chatter. Frequently judging this or that. > > Contrasting self to others, evaluating any foibles it can find. Having the > > need to be right, to be esteemed. That mind can also rise up high and > > powerful when needed. But often, having less of a silent platform, the full > > expansion of thoughts that lead to fulfilling purposeful thoughts, are > > diffused, cluttered and churned up with the background turbulence -- such > > tends to break up the waves of purposeful thoughts. > > > > That mind, also can constantly and repeatedly be glombing on to hopes about > > the future. Being jackhammered by the fears and regrets of the past. Not > > being able to simple drop things, but rather a compulsion to make the > > universe aware of its important and crucial (as it appears to that mind) > > fluctuations. > > > > Signal to noise ratio is a helpful analogy to me. In the naturally quiet > > and still mind, its core state is like a glassy still lake, there is little > > self generated "noise". Purposeful thoughts are not distorted and churned > > up by any background turbulence. Signal to noise is very high. The mind > > with a turbulent core state has lower signal to noise ratios -- the noise > > sometimes predominating and the signal gets pretty distorted. > > > > People's writings, conversations, even photos, seem to have a signal to > > noise signature. Look at Ramana's picture and one sees awareness that is > > not cluttered or turbulent, just silence, resting in its core state, until > > a question or need arises elsewhere. Even then you can feel the gentleness > > of his response. Conversations are telling. People who need to keep > > grabbing the conversation, interupting to make there oh so important > > point, almost as a compulsion, appear to be riding big turbulent inner > > choppy waves. As is reflected also in writing to a degree. Its an > > interesting energy to observe. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@> wrote: > > > > > > Right on. Nothing wrong with thoughts, except by those plagued by their > > > own, seeking an artificial relief and stillness. Even the accomplishment > > > of that stillness is only half the battle won. Liberation as you so > > > astutely say is complete when the mind is the servant of the Self vs. the > > > isolated ego. And addiction to anything goes away with self liberation. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" <raviyogi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > There is a definite reduction in thoughts but that's merely a > > > > consequence of losing the identification of me and mine. Mind is a > > > > great utility like the body. Like I usually say mind should be under > > > > the payroll of Self and not the ego. But I don't currently believe in a > > > > thoughtless enlightened state, it just seems to fantasy projected by > > > > people like Vaj, the vakrabuddhi(twisted or crooked intellect), > > > > fascinated with and tormented by their thoughts. You can be the master > > > > of the thoughts but the notion of a thoughtless state shows how much > > > > the person is bounded by it. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As always, Turq has presented a thoughtful piece on the dynamics of > > > > > consciousness. I am eager to hear his thoughts on the influence of > > > > > the Gayatri Mantra in his scheme of things. > > > > > > > > > > However, Ramana, Tolle, Adyashanti and many others suggest that the > > > > > core indicator of spiritual progress is number of thoughts that arise > > > > > (in activity). Tolle says his experience is an 80% reduction. I am > > > > > guessing Ramana would have a larger number. > > > > > > > > > > Adyashanti digs deeper and talks about thought-addiction as being the > > > > > core characteristic of the non-realized, along the lines of a > > > > > compulsion, coupled with a fundamental belief that "the Universe just > > > > > HAS to hear what I have to say, that it will go woefully hayware > > > > > without my thoughts being expressed", often at progressively louder > > > > > intensity and higher frequency pace. > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought (I am so unrealized), perhaps its the 3000 members of > > > > > FFL who don't post who are the realized ones. Silent witnesses beyond > > > > > the gunic (or is it goonic) compulsion to correct and enlighten the > > > > > universe with ones special and abundant thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
