Maybe we (you and others) are saying a similar thing, maybe not.
My use of the term "thoughtless" might be misinterpreted from the state I am
referring to. I thought "thoughtless" was a bit of a delicious and ironic term
-- with the second or third nunanced background wave of meaning reflecting the
humorous image of the realized being "thoughtless" as in not considerate of
others. And those of a more bound nature as being thoughtful (considerate), and
writing thoughtful posts (well considered, reasoned, digested, even wise).
My sense of humor and irony aside, the state is not a permanent thoughtless
state. Ebill said something like if thoughtless state was the thing, then lots
of dull sort of folks are realized. And I will add pot smokers. Or those
partaking a bit to much irish whiskey. Or simply deep sleep. All such can
produce a thoughtless state, the first and last from dullness, the others by
temporarily restructuring the pathways of awareness. These are not the state I
am referring to.
What I am referring to is the ability and nature of the mind to sit in its own
nest, a collapsed wave, no choppy waters. Along with the characteristic of a
full powerful well shaped wave arising when an external need arises (a work
project, a question, etc.) A core state utterly still waters, then rising into
large waves, fluctuations when called upon. But no internal need or impetus for
the generation of thoughts. A clear waters type state of mind, like a stil,
glassy lake when there is no breeze. No thought for an hour might be the norm,
then a single clear fluxuation to meed a need. Like a store keeper. Silent
behind the counter for some time. then sprining to life when needed to serve
and help a customer. No need to be pacing around, tapping fingers, and all.
Just stillness, sitting behind the counter.
This is in contrast to everyday minds that rarely settle down, and have
constant choppy waters, the internal vasanatic breeze constantly causing
ripples and turblulence. Mind chatter. Frequently judging this or that.
Contrasting self to others, evaluating any foibles it can find. Having the need
to be right, to be esteemed. That mind can also rise up high and powerful when
needed. But often, having less of a silent platform, the full expansion of
thoughts that lead to fulfilling purposeful thoughts, are diffused, cluttered
and churned up with the background turbulence -- such tends to break up the
waves of purposeful thoughts.
That mind, also can constantly and repeatedly be glombing on to hopes about the
future. Being jackhammered by the fears and regrets of the past. Not being able
to simple drop things, but rather a compulsion to make the universe aware of
its important and crucial (as it appears to that mind) fluctuations.
Signal to noise ratio is a helpful analogy to me. In the naturally quiet and
still mind, its core state is like a glassy still lake, there is little self
generated "noise". Purposeful thoughts are not distorted and churned up by any
background turbulence. Signal to noise is very high. The mind with a turbulent
core state has lower signal to noise ratios -- the noise sometimes
predominating and the signal gets pretty distorted.
People's writings, conversations, even photos, seem to have a signal to noise
signature. Look at Ramana's picture and one sees awareness that is not
cluttered or turbulent, just silence, resting in its core state, until a
question or need arises elsewhere. Even then you can feel the gentleness of his
response. Conversations are telling. People who need to keep grabbing the
conversation, interupting to make there oh so important point, almost as a
compulsion, appear to be riding big turbulent inner choppy waves. As is
reflected also in writing to a degree. Its an interesting energy to observe.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7" <whynotnow7@...> wrote:
>
> Right on. Nothing wrong with thoughts, except by those plagued by their own,
> seeking an artificial relief and stillness. Even the accomplishment of that
> stillness is only half the battle won. Liberation as you so astutely say is
> complete when the mind is the servant of the Self vs. the isolated ego. And
> addiction to anything goes away with self liberation.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" <raviyogi@> wrote:
> >
> > There is a definite reduction in thoughts but that's merely a consequence
> > of losing the identification of me and mine. Mind is a great utility like
> > the body. Like I usually say mind should be under the payroll of Self and
> > not the ego. But I don't currently believe in a thoughtless enlightened
> > state, it just seems to fantasy projected by people like Vaj, the
> > vakrabuddhi(twisted or crooked intellect), fascinated with and tormented by
> > their thoughts. You can be the master of the thoughts but the notion of a
> > thoughtless state shows how much the person is bounded by it.
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > As always, Turq has presented a thoughtful piece on the dynamics of
> > > consciousness. I am eager to hear his thoughts on the influence of the
> > > Gayatri Mantra in his scheme of things.
> > >
> > > However, Ramana, Tolle, Adyashanti and many others suggest that the core
> > > indicator of spiritual progress is number of thoughts that arise (in
> > > activity). Tolle says his experience is an 80% reduction. I am guessing
> > > Ramana would have a larger number.
> > >
> > > Adyashanti digs deeper and talks about thought-addiction as being the
> > > core characteristic of the non-realized, along the lines of a compulsion,
> > > coupled with a fundamental belief that "the Universe just HAS to hear
> > > what I have to say, that it will go woefully hayware without my thoughts
> > > being expressed", often at progressively louder intensity and higher
> > > frequency pace.
> > >
> > > Just a thought (I am so unrealized), perhaps its the 3000 members of FFL
> > > who don't post who are the realized ones. Silent witnesses beyond the
> > > gunic (or is it goonic) compulsion to correct and enlighten the universe
> > > with ones special and abundant thoughts.
> > >
> >
>
