As always, thank you, Bob; I am so tickled that you are here.
As to Eastern dream interpretation, I don't know shit.
As for me, I like to view everything everyone throws my way, or ascribes to me,
as an offering. Often the offering is an aspect of Wholeness or Reality which
the offerer doesn't particularly care to see in him- or herself.
If I refuse the offering, I find it vibrates between Us in perpetual denial --
"Not Me! Well, it's not ME!" and becomes or remains my "demonic", my unloved
shadow-self. If I accept the offering -- that too must be a part of Wholeness,
must be a part of who we are -- and eat it, resisting not Evil, then the shit
alchemically transmutes through I AM into gold and crystal, and that horrific
resistance melts into love, light, and the laughter of self-recognition: and
further, into the paradoxical, indescribable, hair-raisingly exquisite
ever-Presence, the unspeakable Mystery.
(It seems somebody or other *did* write of the equivalence of shit and gold:
was it Freud? Or the Eastern dreamer of which you speak? I don't know shit, but
I *AM* shit; I eat shit and "die" ... YUM!)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price <bobpriced@...> wrote:
>
> Rory,
>
> As always, thanks for your input and as usual I think you're on to something.
> In
> eastern dream interpretation doesn't shit symbolize money?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RoryGoff <rorygoff@...>
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 11:21:53 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: another question for MZ, and maybe William of
> Occam
>
>
> (Perhaps St. Thomas of Aquinas really meant "shit" when he called his
> writings
> "straw" after some kind of an intellectual gut-punch, evisceration or
> "death".
> Perhaps in the heart of the incomprehensible Divine's unconditional love,
> shit
> is exactly the same as crystal and gold. And perhaps the intellect's creation
> of
> "shit" is what creates our need for TP, at least in the West, where we prefer
> not to sully our left hand...)
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Just for the record, Tom: all that I have written here (that isn't
> > deliberately
> >ironic) is utterly sincereâ"sincere here means, my motives are honourable
> >(at
> >least as far as I can consciously know them). As for your condemnation of my
> >writing: style and form of argumentation, I must admit I don't follow you
> >here.
> >Of course I grant that sometimes my style becomes convoluted and dense, but
> >I am
> >only trying to track the deepest feelings, the deepest experiences, and the
> >most
> >complex ideas.
> >
> > When someone is harshly critical of oneself, there is always the thought:
> > Is
> >this person right about meâ"or at least partially right? Then, if one poses
> >this
> >question and tries to be as honest and fearless as one can, one steps
> >outside of
> >oneself and says: "Are you sure this person hasn't got a hold of an
> >important
> >truth about you, as painful and traumatizing as it is to contemplate it?"
> >
> > And there are (at least as far as I can tell) only four outcomes to this
> >self-interrogation: 1. denial but silence (a sort of turn the other cheek
> >response) 2. denial and retaliation (and here there has to be SOME truth in
> >the
> >negative judgment of oneself) 3. acceptance and regret (wishing what was
> >said
> >was NOT true, but getting down about it, because of the irresistible sense
> >that
> >it IS true) 4. acceptance and humility (one learns from the criticism, and
> >amends one's waysâ"to the extent to which this is possible).
> >
> >
> > Depending of course on HOW MUCH ACTUAL TRUTH IS GETTING SAID AND THROUGH TO
> >ONE.
> >
> > The real question, then, becomes, Tom: If I were a third person observing
> > this
> >point counterpoint (that is, while still being aware that one is in fact the
> >object of a blanket dismissal of the worth of anything and everything one
> >has
> >written), where would I come down in terms of my assessment of where the
> >truth
> >lies?
> >
> > Mostly on Tom Pall's side? or mostly on Masked Zebra's side? Or a
> > combination
> >of both (i.e. there is SOME truth in what Tom Pall is saying, but at the
> >same
> >time the criticism is not entirely justified)?
> >
> > I will just say to you outright, Tom, that however sincere and passionate
> > you
> >are in judging my contributions here on FFL to be "shit", I am unable to
> >make
> >this judgment fit the reality of my experience. And therefore I am leftâ"I
> >hope
> >not in any defensive or self-serving wayâ"with the overwhelming impression
> >that
> >you yourself have no notion of where your bitterness or anger or hatred
> >comes
> >from.
> >
> > Now I don't mean this necessarily as a personal criticism of you. I only
> > mean
> >to say that, without sparing myself in my determination to get at where the
> >truth lies, I find myself unable to arrive at any other conclusionâ"than
> >that, in
> >some mysterious way, you haveâ"for a considerable time nowâ"found yourself
> >in the
> >act of hating someone (or something) without being able to consciously stay
> >aware of WHY IT IS YOU ARE DOING THIS.
> >
> > And on what basis do I reach this conclusion?
> >
> > Your judgment of me (in the terms at least that you have made it) just does
> > not
> >apply to the objective truth of the situation. You have missed your man,
> >Tom.
> >You have got me wrong.
> >
> > Because (I am repeating myself here) there is not a single subjective
> > response
> >inside of myself which would suggest I am avoiding taking on this
> >challengeâ"and
> >mounting a counter-offensive to protect my self-esteem.
> >
> > I must conclude, therefore, that you are mistaken about me, Tom. And that
> >therefore you lack any meaningful rationale for the perpetuation of this
> >antipathy.
> >
> > You seeâ"I AM COMING TO THE END OF THIS, TOM!â"If there were the
> > slightest truth
> >in what you have said about me (I mean in the main: you are full of shit and
> >your writing is shit, MZ) then, believe it or not, in reading this [what I
> >am
> >writing here in this very post], at some level at least, YOU WOULD
> >EXPERIENCE
> >YOURSELF AS A MARTYR. A martyr? Yes, a martyr for the truth.
> >
> > Because MZ has just tried to pull a fast one here, seeking a kind of false
> >exoneration. I (Tom Pall) know in my soul: Hey, here is deceit and
> >corruption
> >('shit') in the service of the ego.: Do you need any more proof than this
> >very
> >attempt to overthrow my (TP/s) TRUE judgment of this guy?
> >
> > Yes, if you would go into your death with this conviction, Tom, then
> > somehow I
> >have 1. misconstrued reality 2. misconstrued you 3. misconstrued the truth.
> >
> > Now I look forward to seeing your reply to this, having, as best I can, set
> > up
> >certain criteria that would enable us (and the unsentimental readers on this
> >blog) to properly evaluate the merits of our respective positions in this
> >matter. Masked Zebra, he is full of shit. Masked Zebra, he is not full of
> >shit.
> >No, Tom, I have (excepting the necessary strategic use of irony) written in
> >good
> >faith. And somehow your experience of me and my writing is not consistent
> >with
> >reality. Now there very well may be significant, even devastating criticisms
> >to
> >be madeâ"of me, of my writingâ"but you have not hit upon what they are.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall <thomas.pall@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Ravi Yogi <raviyogi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MZ, ignore Tom - he hates everyone so it's nothing personal.
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall <thomas.pall@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > RC, don't place limits on yourself like that. Take next week and the
> week
> > > > > after and the week after.
> > > > >
> > > > > But Nature's already taking its course. You're quickly becoming
> > > > irrelevant
> > > > > here just as you've become irrelevant wherever you've squatted. Soon
> > > > > all
> > > > > that be left behind will be some rotting turds, a God awful stench and
> > > > > flies.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quite right. Nothing personal. I actually was looking forward to the
> time
> > > when the great legend RC would/could come to visit. I thought he must be
> > > a
> > > really cool dude, having done all of that. But instead he was just
> > > another
> > > Lory, another Ravi: Hey everyone. I'm going to sit at the keyboard and
> > > free associate, write nothing coherent but make up for the incoherence in
> > > the volume of non-sequitor words, sentences, paragraphs and pages I
> > > produce. You see, when you've had experiences like I've had, when you've
> > > been enlightened, you no longer need to nor can write the in vernacular,
> > > no
> > > longer need to use the idiom of the common, rather highly educated FFLer.
> > > If we can't make out what you're writing, it's because you are so high
> > > above
> > > us, so very special and well, it's so ineffable that you need to pick
> > > random
> > > words out of philosophy texts as you type along. Maharishi didn't find
> > > this important. He we call Guru Dev didn't find this important. SSRS,
> > > Amma, Christ did not find this important. Nor did the God who spoke to
> > > Abraham. Nor Shankara. Nor Tim Leary. But you are something very
> > > special,
> > > beyond all of those and we need to struggle to just to try to make a bit
> > > of
> > > sense out of what you set down on the screen. The shear struggle we put
> > > forth might help us climb a bit of the ladder to your level. How
> > > interesting that we have to struggle our way up the side of a cliff, draw
> > > ourselves up a steep ladder when it's actually all about getting from here
> > > to here.
> > >
> > > Nothing personal about quantity of words produced. Barry Wright often
> > > fills
> > > pages. Though his messages ever have a slam against TM, Americans (which
> > > he, BTW, happens to be) and Judy, he writes compelling stuff in prose
> > > where
> > > every sentence is terse and tight, one sentence leads to the next,
> > > paragraphs tie together, the whole makes sense. But Barry Wright doesn't
> > > put yourself in your class, Thank God.
> > >
> > > I don't care if you had a romance with Maharishi. In fact, I don't care
> > > if
> > > you two walked the beach hand in hand saying sweet nothings to each other.
> > > Nor that you launched a campaign against Maharishi and his TMO. I
> > > actually
> > > prefer that sort of behavior and history compared to the blissninny
> > > postings
> > > we get here about this or that TMO event.
> > >
> > > Yes, I have lots of hates. One hate is someone who comes to a forum where
> > > people communicate with each other, mostly. The politics can be bizarre,
> > > the philosophies can be bizarre, the life experiences are vastly different
> > > and yes, there are the awards for the one line zinger or the succinctly
> > > worded pithy point summed up in a single sentence.
> > >
> > > It truly is nothing personal, RC. I wouldn't care if your name was
> > > actually
> > > Daisy Mae. You, Ravi and Lory are full of shit. Or rather you three
> > > write
> > > shit. Some are impressed with that. Surely each of you are impressed
> > > with
> > > each other's shit.
> > >
> > > Why not just hit the delete key or put spam filters in place? Because the
> > > way these posts and threads work, I'll begin reading what I think is an
> > > interesting post about XYZ. Turns out it's a response or a response to a
> > > response to your keyboard diarrhea. Can't filter those out as these
> > > threads go on forever at times. If I filter a poster to trash, the entire
> > > thread containing a post by someone I'm filtering all wind up in the
> > > trash. A lot of fascinating stuff is lost that way, so I wind up going
> > > through my trash to find the otherwise good stuff.
> > >
> >
>
