As usual, after a fashion, we arrive at a sincere place. Thanks for your response. I keep thinking that we might be able to arrive here quicker without the provocation of calling me a Buddhist or pain-projecting liberal or that I have made a random list of people my idols. Perhaps not. Maybe it is the weird dynamic of bringing my name into a conversation with some label I reject that makes our conversations possible. But I appreciate that through the storm I am usually left with a feeling of connection across the abyss of the Internet. I suspect your provocative style would play better in person with accompanying visual rapport signals. But I end up liking you in the end Ravi.
As for the content of your claim, I have no reason to doubt that this is your experience and that it has a solid physiological basis. We would differ in its value and purpose and how we are to interpret the perspective it gives you. As you know I reject that the ancient systems of spirituality have these states of mind figured out reliably. I believe we have to integrate our current knowledge of how the brain functions to understand the meaning and value of these states. But the fact that you are in the grip of a compelling experience that has transformed your relationship with the rest of the world, that seems pretty clear. And you seem self aware enough to understand that from outside, I am unlikely to assume my identity as a product of your creation. I have over 5 decades of hard work behind me to create the person I am today. I can't give you credit for any of that. So we are a left with the fact that humans have a capacity for the kind of experience you describe, but we must all seek out an understanding of them that makes our lives function. It is the human condition with or without spiritual labels. We are complex, busy creatures with a marvelous capacity for imagination. We are also a creature who is capable of hideous self-delusion concerning our place in the world. And both you and I have to make our own judgement calls on how well we are managing that tendency. I can only wish you well on your journey, and empathize with your challenges of being presented with a dramatic shift of awareness to integrate. Life is full of challenges for all of us. I have my own crosses to bear, inner and outer. But to follow up on the idea that you have created the universe...I just want to put in a little request. You see the drains in my old VW Jetta have apparently been plugged up by the leaves of the trees you created. Now since you created the German bastards who have diabolically hidden these internal rain channel drains when building my car so it is hard to find and clear them, I am left with puddles on the passenger side of my car with all the rain you have been dropping on my ass lately. OK so here is the request. Till I can figure out how to clear these drains, is there any chance you can hold off on your mildew creatures setting up an outpost in my car? I know they are some of your most beloved creations due to the insanely high numbers of their family living on our planet, but can you steer them away from the black Jetta GT here in Alexandria for a while? I hope it isn't too much to ask. And please send a vision to one of those German mystics to tell them to stop using the phrase "German engineering" as if it is something to brag about. This is a design flaw pure and simple and they don't deserve those bragging rights. (And yes, I've owned a Mercedes and they still don't have a case.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" <raviyogi@...> wrote: > > Curtis, > I'm going to just respond to your last paragraph, since I am not really > interested in debating issues rather than challenging or provoking, > neither have I a solution to any problem. I'll describe my predicament > below - you are smart and intelligent and I'll let you draw your own > conclusions. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > <big ass snip> > > > > > The natural progression of a bleeding heart liberal is to > internalize> the pain, become enlightened,be a healer, a shaman.> > > > > Am I assuming too much if I say that you are claiming that you are in > this state? So what about that girl getting pimped. Let's get back to > her for a second. We have been so focused on our own perception of > reality that we are forgetting her aren't we? How has your state of > mind improved her situation, more than say laws that protect her from > being discriminated against if she tries to get a legitimate job. > > > > And how does a "shaman" heal exactly? What is the mechanism of that > healing that takes their internal state of mind and improves the > situation of a person who has their own identity outside that mind. You > know, the rest of the world. > > > > Have you actually improved the suffering of others in the world, or > have you created a nice cushy internal buffer so it all bothers you > less? > > > > And I am not saying that a life must be lived in service to others or > that you have to focus on suffering people to help them. We all find > our balance. But if you make the claim that guys like MLK did little to > really help suffering people and that enlightened people do more, I > would like you to explain how you imagine that happens. > > > > I contemplated the whole day about how I could best articulate my > feelings and this is how I would describe. > I have to come to the realization that I have created the Universe, the > love, the hate, the day, the night, the misery, the bliss. I can't > recall how exactly I created it. I admire all the interesting characters > I created - Ravi, Curtis, Jim, Rory, Rick, Judy, Barry, Steve etc. > However the problem is I also became a part of it as well. Now I'm stuck > in it, with no way to get out. However I also know it's my creation and > it will end one day but don't know when exactly. > I admire my creation and become totally get blissed out at the beauty > and marvel of it. I also get filled with intense grief at the pain and > suffering that I created, I would love to get rid of all of it but I > feel totally lost on how to. I just go into intense sadness and imagine > I'm sucking the entire negativity and converting into positivity. Yet I > spend the day in playful, detached indulgence while playing my part, > because I know very well it's all my creation. People around me enjoy > the carefree, playful humor, they also like my seriousness at my work, I > try my best to help others around me. I also display other emotions such > as anger, albeit rarely. > I do my best at playing my part. I laugh at the ridiculousness of all of > it. No wonder my Guru laughed when I asked her if she was my Guru, she > found it funny that I created ignorance, then created her as my Guru to > get out of it and then had the stupidity to ask my own creation if she > was my Guru. I just went to the airport to pick up a friend. A cop of my > creation yelled at me to get out of the way and I profusely apologized > and moved out the way, all the while laughing at my predicament. > The marvel, the joy, the pain, the intense anguish, my playful > indulgence continues and repeats every day. > I'm very proud of my creation and totally in love with it, yet very > humble because of my inability to really do anything about it. Yet I > know it will surely end and I indulge in it in a playful, detached way. > No wonder I get branded with various labels such as bipolar, paranoid > schizophrenic, manic, grandiose, equal opportunity racist, narcissistic > enlightened asshole. > Guilty as charged, all I can do is beg for your forgiveness at creating > this Universe. > Your persistence at a solution is admirable, but I don't believe the > problem has any solution. I just playfully indulge with bouts of intense > bliss and pain, waiting for my creation and the problem to end. >
