--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <no_reply@...> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" <anartaxius@> > wrote: >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn <emilymae.reyn@> wrote: >> <snip> >>> I don't care where or how often the photo was posted - I find it horrific, >>> period. Â I looked at it out of context and I'm glad it's deleted. Â It >>> hurts to look at it. But, remember, I'm nowhere near where Xeno is staying >>> in my "left brain" so to speak, which is how his text comes across on his >>> reaction to the photo. Â Triggers? Â Excuse me? Â We are talking about one >>> of our own species committing suicide in front of us. Â It's painful to see. >> >> It has happened again just recently (I am not posting the photo). >> >> NEW DELHI " A Tibetan exile who set himself on fire [March 26, 2012] in >> India to protest a visit by China's president died Wednesday, while hundreds >> of other activists were being detained. >> >> Jamphel Yeshi, 27, set himself alight Monday at a demonstration in New >> Delhi. He ran screaming past other protesters and the media before falling >> to the ground, his clothing partly disintegrated and nearly his entire body >> covered in burns. >> >> "Martyr Jamphel Yeshi's sacrifice will be written in golden letters in the >> annals of our freedom struggle," said Dhondup Lhadar, an activist with the >> Tibetan Youth Congress. "He will live on to inspire and encourage the future >> generations of Tibetans." >> >> Self immolation never seems to serve the purpose that its practitioners seem >> to think it will accomplish. While Judy felt that Nabby's post trivialised >> the death of that previously misguided Tibetan I think the behaviour of >> these people trivialises their own lives. Rather than making people think >> deeply about the situation they are trying to underline with their bold >> display, they usually just create a shock in the nervous systems of those >> that manage to hear about it, see images of it, etc. >> >> Somewhere inside the ego says 'That could be "me"', and with that, whatever >> message was to be conveyed by the incendiary performance gets lost in an >> experience of fear generated in the observers as they feel their own >> mortality. Except as an afterthought, this does not inspire people, it >> weakens them by undermining their comfort zone rather than inspiring them to >> pursue their goal, and in the process eliminates one protester. It is not >> like a courageous march in the face of an enemy attempting to bring the >> enemy down, it is sacrificing oneself needlessly which is a benefit to the >> enemy. >> >>> Barry, from a distance, you must realize how angry you sound. Â Do you ever >>> try read your posts with any objectivity? Â Go have yourself a good >>> cry..you'll feel better and less paranoid. >> >> In the year I have been on this forum, Barry's style has been pretty >> consistent. I do not experience his writing as angry, it is too automatic >> for that. I sense Judy gets angry, but I also feel she has a wider range of >> intellectual interests than Barry. She shows a lot more passion than Barry. >> Barry is far more calculating, I do not think he is being led on by his >> emotions to the extent that you are implying. >> >> On forums as elsewhere, alliances form, dissolve, depending on what we like >> or dislike, or are interested in at the moment. For example Vaj, Barry, >> Curtis, which some here equate with the godhead of evil, are three very >> distinct personalities. Curtis is the most down to earth from what I can >> tell, and the most interactive of the three. Vaj is kind of secretive, so I >> find it hard to tell what he is about. And Barry is a kind of mystery too, >> but I see him playing the cat to the mouse on the forum, but he actually >> does not seem interested in the kill, just in pushing the button and >> observing the result. >> >> Now Judy is interested in the kill when her passion is up but sometimes I >> think her arguments are more about syntax than the content. But I do not >> want to over-generalize. >> >> If we are heated up by this photo that Nabby posted, maybe we can take a >> moment of silence in the wake of those unfortunate departed. The silence is >> not for them, or even in memory of them - they are gone - the silence is for >> us, to re-establish who we are in relation to a world that sometimes changes >> more and in more ways than we would prefer. >> > The fact remains that this tragedy would not have happened if the now > departed soul had a practise of meditation that actually worked. That would > have lifted him up from despair. As of now the Buddhists have no such > meditation, as this incident shows. > Also, if the Tibetans had a leader, not just someone jetsetting around the > world and giving nonsense interviews with his superstar-friends in Dharamsala > that gives no hope for the future, perhaps this man would not commit suicide. > > Let's hope this tragic inscident gives the TM-teachers in New Delhi new > impetus to strengthen their activities of spreading a meditation that > actually works amongst the Tibetans. > This is hardly a valid criterion by which to judge the effects of a meditation. There are stories in the TM movement of people jumping out of windows, walking in front of trains, and one well documented case of murder. We can say these things would not have happened if TM actually worked. One scientific study indicated that only 20% of the people in the study continued to practice TM regularly, but if it worked in the ideal manner that is proclaimed, we would expect 100%.
Additionally people seem to drift from movement to movement or teacher to teacher. If you disagree with Vaj, Curtis, and Barry for example, you would have to conclude that TM produced all three of them, this is the result of TM (though Vaj's TM practice is questionable), and this is how it works out. Robin Carlsen was a product of TM. The list goes on. I am the result of TM. In reading spiritual literature, I have never found any clear cut mention of awakenings in TM literature with regard to present day meditators, but such mentions are frequent in say, the literature of Zen Buddhism. So on this basis we could conclude that TM does not work, or work very well. On the other hand I do know of people who have awakened by the process of TM. I once asked a Purusha from India if anyone had awakened and the answer was 'no'. These awakenings were always involved those more on the edge of the TMO and not deeply within. I am just contradicting what you say, because I think your criterion is bad. I feel TM is just as successful as a meditation system as others, and has certain advantages, such as ease of practice. We would hope anyone seeking enlightenment would succeed. Learning a meditation does not automatically solve all a person's problems or remove their illusions. Time, time, time, time. It takes time. So using a specific act that seems to contradict the effectiveness of a system is not a good criterions for evaluating its effectiveness. What do you think about Christianity and its forms of meditation, about Zen Buddhism and its forms of meditation, about Tibetan Buddhists (some of which seem to be on this forum) and its forms of meditation, and about rival Hindu groups and its forms of meditation? Do you want these people to fail so you can gloat that TM is superior. I think that would show TM results in a distorted personality. There is meditation, and there is the philosophical or ideological context in which most practice it. I think this is just as important as the meditation itself, because the intellectual system by which one interprets experiences can have effects that support or impede the results. The worse result of ideology is someone who has a superiority complex, one who hopes all those who are not doing what s/he is doing will fail, demonstrating that what s/he is doing is thus superior to all other forms. Now that may be true or not, but that feeling of superiority is something that has to pass, however long that may take. The worse case is something like this: Pope Gregory VI : 'The bliss of the elect in heaven would not be perfect unless they were able to look across the abyss and enjoy the agonies of their brethren in eternal fire.' Gregory bought the Papacy by the way. Therefore I think your criterion for evaluating meditation is flawed. You upset people favourable to you, and put fuel into the fire for those who think you have a problem.
