Doc, here's one of my favorite quotes from SoB and AofL, p. 238 on identification:"...identification is not bondage. What is bondage is the inability to maintain Being together with identification. What is bondage is inability to maintain Being while indulging in experience and activity ...Identification is not bondage because freedom must be lived in the world, and living in the world entails identifying oneself with everything in it for the sake of experience and activity."
________________________________ From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" <doctordumb...@rocketmail.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was Re: Free Man In Paris, v3.01] --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@...> wrote: > > Doc, that Planter's jingle comment makes me smile each time I read it, > thanks. **Yeah, me too! I have endless storage in my mind, devoted to such things.:-) Here's a question: if the ego has expanded to cosmic level, which is what Maharishi explained, then what does it mean to be egocentric?! **Yes, I thought the same thing, in terms of the language I used, when I wrote that. Damn, you caught it! lol I was using 'egocentric' as a shorthand for the identification with the small self. A sense of self, or ego, must exist. Nothing wrong with Cosmic Ego. The difference comes with which ego we are identifying with, the small, egocentric one, or the Cosmic Ego, unbounded and universal. Remember MMY's talk on "Identification", that when we gaze into a flower, we get lost in the flower, losing our identity in the flower? It is like that. There is no way to get *lost* in the identification of the small self, and still retain the awareness of Cosmic Ego. The two cannot co-exist. Anyway, I dug up that Michael Goodman quote about Brahman and also something more recent from Buck in the Dome. > > PS I like your analogy about being a billionaire but think that the whole > idea that everyone is enlightened points to Maharishi's teaching that > knowledge is different in different states of consciousness. Meaning that > from one perspective I'm sure everyone is already enlightened. And from > another, not so much. A practical person entertains both ideas (-: **On the one hand, this statement that we are all enlightened, is true, in terms of everyone's potential. However, the way in which it is commonly used, is as a fiction. It is as if I handed you an avocado, and charged you $100,000 - $2 for the avocado, and $99,998 for the full-sized tree, residing latent in its seed. So as a Rah, Rah, feel-good statement, yeah, we are all enlightened. As a practicality, the tree is still within the avocado, so it only costs two bucks. > > "Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is NOT. > Brahman is not the Absolute. > Brahman is not the relative. > Brahman is not both of them together. > Brahman is not neither of them. > Brahman is The Knower." > > The Unified Field has made the senses turn outwards, > Humans therefore look outwards, > Not in to themselves, > But occasionally a daring soul, > Desiring un- boundedness, > Has looked back > And found Itself. > > -The Upanishads > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "doctordumbass@..." <doctordumbass@...> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:39 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was Re: > Free Man In Paris, v3.01] > > > >  > "I think there is a stage of enlightenment wherein one realizes that one is > indeed the small self and the Big Self at the same time." > > Hi Share, How is one both, at the same time, AND enlightened? Is it like the > Planter's jingle, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't!"?? > > Seriously, I can accept that identification with the small self can > occasionally be transcended, so that the seeker momentarily experiences a > larger unbounded sense of self, the Big Self. > > But it is plainly impossible to carry both identities, being egocentric in > one moment, and feeling universally expansive in another, and consider that > poorly integrated state, Enlightenment. More like ignorance, with a few > flashes of insight. > > Ask your heart. You know where its allegiance lies. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > Thanks, Doc, but I'm can't agree with you. I think there is a stage of > > enlightenment wherein one realizes that one is indeed the small self and > > the Big Self at the same time. OTOH, it's simply fun to talk about all > > this. I'm happy for people who are enlightened and sometimes I like > > them. I'm happy for enlightened teachers and sometimes I want to learn > > from them. And sometimes life wants me to learn from enlightened people > > and enlightened teachers whether I want to or not! What to do? (-: > > > > > > BTW, nnoozguru, I watched Kumare last night. Turns out our public > > library has had it all along! But they had it in non fiction! > > Anyway, VERY cool movie. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "doctordumbass@" <doctordumbass@> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:02 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was Re: > > Free Man In Paris, v3.01] > > > > > > > >  > > Hi Share, Barry said something in his reply to you that is pretty confused, > > and I wanted to clear it up. He states that he has, had long flashes or > > periods of enlightenment. Wow, what a mess. > > > > Just so you know, he is talking about what I call "dirty" witnessing. There > > is a temporary conditioning of the mind that can be triggered by extra > > meditation, fasting, etc. where one gets the feeling of being outside of > > oneself. This is absolutely NOT enlightenment, and never has been. Although > > some silence may be there, and the physiology mimics a state of silence, > > the shift in identity has not occurred, the enlightened realization that, > > "I am not the small self", has not occurred. > > > > So Barry, contrary to his confusion has not experienced enlightenment, > > ever. There are other examples of his confusion when he talks about it, but > > this one is enough for now, to clearly illustrate the reality. The only way > > he views enlightenment is as some sort of counter to his identity - he is > > afraid of it, but doesn't have a clue what it is. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > > > turq, I often encounter devoted and long term TMers who > > > > even currently enjoy spending time with their children > > > > and grandchildren. As regards living for enlightenment, > > > > many of the sidhas I know are living for the sake of > > > > living itself, the richness of it, just riding those > > > > waves of life. Yes, they engage in a particular activity > > > > to develop themselves more, but isn't that part of being > > > > human? > > > > > > Only for those who believe that life is not fulfilled > > > in every moment, and that there is something "more" to > > > achieve. > > > > > > > For example, don't you yourself engage in activities to > > > > develop as a writer? > > > > > > Other than writing itself? Never. > > > > > > > Anyway, you sound angry in your last paragraph. Were you? > > > > > > The only reason I'm replying is that you are the fourth > > > person to have gotten their buttons pushed by two little > > > words, "Fuck enlightenment." When I saw the reactions > > > in Message View, I honestly had to go back to reread > > > the original piece to figure out what they were talking > > > about. There was not a *microgram* of anger in me as > > > I wrote that. It is simply how I feel about enlight- > > > enment. It, the reverence for it, and the desire to > > > attain or realize it simply have no place in my life. > > > I felt no emotion whatsoever writing those words, > > > because the concept of enlightenment holds no interest > > > for me whatsoever. It was as meaningless an aside as > > > if I'd said, "Fuck ketchup." > > > > > > > If yes, why? > > > > > > Irrelevant. Someday you should learn that the fact that > > > someone does not necessarily have to feel the same way > > > about things as you do. Enlightenment, schmitenment. > > > I've never seen -- or experienced -- any evidence that > > > it does anything for anyone other than the person who > > > is experiencing it. It's a *completely* subjective > > > experience, of no benefit to any other human being. > > > Living in hope of "attaining" or "realizing" that? > > > What a waste of life. But living in hope of doing > > > something nice for someone else? Now that's something > > > worth living for. > > > > > > Given a choice between spending a little quality time > > > with Maya or being enlightened, and I'd go for Mayatime > > > anytime. Given a choice of spending time with any > > > supposedly enlightened being in history -- including > > > the original Buddha -- and I'd go for Mayatime anytime. > > > > > > In all honesty, if you had ever had long flashes or > > > periods of enlightenment, you might feel differently > > > about it. I have. I prefer Mayatime, and here-and- > > > now-time, anytime. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: turquoiseb <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:59 AM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Free Man In Paris, v3.01 > > > > > > > > I was having dinner with a friend from work last night in a small > > > > restaurant on the Ile St. Louis, and it turned into an interesting > > > > opportunity to teach, and to learn. My friend is someone I work with -- > > > > another American ex-pat, a former jazz pianist turned tech writer, > > > > originally from San Francisco but living and working here in Europe for > > > > the last dozen years, so we have a lot in common and lots to talk about. > > > > But we wound up talking about none of those things because two people > > > > came in and sat at the small table next to us. > > > > > > > > They were an older woman (but younger than either of us) and a young > > > > girl (who we learned was 12). The girl heard us talking in English and > > > > started a conversation, and I'm glad she did. It turns out she is from > > > > Atlanta, brought here by her grandmother for her first trip to Europe. > > > > The grandmother is doing this because the young girl is an aspiring > > > > artist, and she wanted her granddaughter to have the experience of > > > > seeing this place and its art close up, in person. > > > > > > > > And they both turned out to be charming. Both were so open to > > > > suggestions as to what to see and where to go while in Paris, and my > > > > friend and I both benefited from hearing them talk about the things > > > > they'd seen so far. It was like being able to experience them for the > > > > first time ourselves -- all the excitement, all the wonder. > > > > > > > > It was a charming evening, and I hope that we were able to steer both of > > > > them to some sights and experiences they will enjoy and cherish, and > > > > that will inspire them as they inspired us. My biggest "take away" from > > > > the evening, however, was seeing the joy in the young girl's eyes, and > > > > in her grandmother's at having been able to help put it there, and > > > > looking forward to being able to do the same thing some day for Maya. > > > > > > > > Fuck enlightenment, or realization, or any of the things that people > > > > here seem to "live for." If there is anything that'll inspire me to keep > > > > on keepin' on for another few years, it's the idea of being able to show > > > > Paris and other cool places to Maya for the first time... > > > > > > > > > >
