"What is bondage is the inability to maintain Being together with identification." This is what I meant, and what Maharishi meant, in the talk of his I referenced.
However, even maintaining Being *along* with identification, is *not* the same as identifying simultaneously with the small egocentric self, and the Big Self, which as I said is impossible. Completely and utterly impossible. See the difference? --- In [email protected], Share Long <sharelong60@...> wrote: > > Doc, here's one of my favorite quotes from SoB and AofL, p. 238 on > identification:"...identification is not bondage. What is bondage is the > inability to maintain Being together with identification. What is bondage > is inability to maintain Being while indulging in experience and activity > ...Identification is not bondage because freedom must be lived in the > world, and living in the world entails identifying oneself with everything in > it for the sake of experience and activity." > > > > ________________________________ > From: "doctordumbass@..." <doctordumbass@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:03 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was Re: > Free Man In Paris, v3.01] > > > >  > > > --- In [email protected], Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > Doc, that Planter's jingle comment makes me smile each time I read it, > > thanks.à> > **Yeah, me too! I have endless storage in my mind, devoted to such things.:-) > > Here's a question:àif the ego has expanded to cosmic level, which is what > Maharishi explained, then what does it mean to be egocentric?! > > **Yes, I thought the same thing, in terms of the language I used, when I > wrote that. Damn, you caught it! lol > > I was using 'egocentric' as a shorthand for the identification with the small > self. A sense of self, or ego, must exist. Nothing wrong with Cosmic Ego. The > difference comes with which ego we are identifying with, the small, > egocentric one, or the Cosmic Ego, unbounded and universal. > > Remember MMY's talk on "Identification", that when we gaze into a flower, we > get lost in the flower, losing our identity in the flower? It is like that. > There is no way to get *lost* in the identification of the small self, and > still retain the awareness of Cosmic Ego. The two cannot co-exist. > >  Anyway, I dug up that Michael Goodman quote about Brahman and also > something more recent from Buck in the Dome.à> > > > PSàI like your analogy about being a billionaire but think that the > > whole idea that everyone is enlightened points to Maharishi's teaching that > > knowledge is different in different states of consciousness.àMeaning > > that from one perspective I'm sure everyone is already enlightened.àAnd > > from another, not so much.àA practical person entertains both ideas (-: > > **On the one hand, this statement that we are all enlightened, is true, in > terms of everyone's potential. However, the way in which it is commonly used, > is as a fiction. It is as if I handed you an avocado, and charged you > $100,000 - $2 for the avocado, and $99,998 for the full-sized tree, residing > latent in its seed. > > So as a Rah, Rah, feel-good statement, yeah, we are all enlightened. As a > practicality, the tree is still within the avocado, so it only costs two > bucks. >  > > > > "Like the Absolute IS, Brahman is NOT. > > Brahman is not the Absolute. > > Brahman is not the relative. > > Brahman is not both of them together. > > Brahman is not neither of them. > > Brahman is The Knower." > > > > The Unified Field has made the senses turn outwards, > > Humans therefore look outwards, > > Not in to themselves, > > But occasionally a daring soul, > > Desiring un- boundedness, > > Has looked back > > And found Itself. > > > > -The Upanishads > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "doctordumbass@" <doctordumbass@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:39 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was Re: > > Free Man In Paris, v3.01] > > > > > > > > à> > "I think there is a stage of enlightenment wherein one realizes that one is > > indeed the small self and the Big Self at the same time." > > > > Hi Share, How is one both, at the same time, AND enlightened? Is it like > > the Planter's jingle, "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you > > don't!"?? > > > > Seriously, I can accept that identification with the small self can > > occasionally be transcended, so that the seeker momentarily experiences a > > larger unbounded sense of self, the Big Self. > > > > But it is plainly impossible to carry both identities, being egocentric in > > one moment, and feeling universally expansive in another, and consider that > > poorly integrated state, Enlightenment. More like ignorance, with a few > > flashes of insight. > > > > Ask your heart. You know where its allegiance lies. > > > > --- In [email protected], Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, Doc, but I'm can't agree with you.ÃâàI think there is a > > > stage of enlightenment wherein one realizes that one is indeed the small > > > self and the Big Self at the same time.ÃâàOTOH, it's simply fun to > > > talk about all this.ÃâàI'm happy for people who are enlightened > > > and sometimes I like them.ÃâàI'm happy for enlightened teachers > > > and sometimes I want to learn from them.ÃâàAnd sometimes life > > > wants me to learn from enlightened people and enlightened teachers > > > whether I want to or not!ÃâàWhat to do?Ãâà(-: > > > > > > > > > BTW, nnoozguru, I watched Kumare last night.ÃâàTurns out our > > > public library has had it all along!ÃâàBut they had it in non > > > fiction!ÃâàAnyway, VERY cool movie.Ãâà> > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: "doctordumbass@" <doctordumbass@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:02 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Barry HAS NEVER experienced enlightenment [was > > > Re: Free Man In Paris, v3.01] > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hi Share, Barry said something in his reply to you that is pretty > > > confused, and I wanted to clear it up. He states that he has, had long > > > flashes or periods of enlightenment. Wow, what a mess. > > > > > > Just so you know, he is talking about what I call "dirty" witnessing. > > > There is a temporary conditioning of the mind that can be triggered by > > > extra meditation, fasting, etc. where one gets the feeling of being > > > outside of oneself. This is absolutely NOT enlightenment, and never has > > > been. Although some silence may be there, and the physiology mimics a > > > state of silence, the shift in identity has not occurred, the enlightened > > > realization that, "I am not the small self", has not occurred. > > > > > > So Barry, contrary to his confusion has not experienced enlightenment, > > > ever. There are other examples of his confusion when he talks about it, > > > but this one is enough for now, to clearly illustrate the reality. The > > > only way he views enlightenment is as some sort of counter to his > > > identity - he is afraid of it, but doesn't have a clue what it is. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > turq, I often encounter devoted and long term TMers who > > > > > even currently enjoy spending time with their children > > > > > and grandchildren. As regards living for enlightenment, > > > > > many of the sidhas I know are living for the sake of > > > > > living itself, the richness of it, just riding those > > > > > waves of life. Yes, they engage in a particular activity > > > > > to develop themselves more, but isn't that part of being > > > > > human? > > > > > > > > Only for those who believe that life is not fulfilled > > > > in every moment, and that there is something "more" to > > > > achieve. > > > > > > > > > For example, don't you yourself engage in activities to > > > > > develop as a writer? > > > > > > > > Other than writing itself? Never. > > > > > > > > > Anyway, you sound angry in your last paragraph. Were you? > > > > > > > > The only reason I'm replying is that you are the fourth > > > > person to have gotten their buttons pushed by two little > > > > words, "Fuck enlightenment." When I saw the reactions > > > > in Message View, I honestly had to go back to reread > > > > the original piece to figure out what they were talking > > > > about. There was not a *microgram* of anger in me as > > > > I wrote that. It is simply how I feel about enlight- > > > > enment. It, the reverence for it, and the desire to > > > > attain or realize it simply have no place in my life. > > > > I felt no emotion whatsoever writing those words, > > > > because the concept of enlightenment holds no interest > > > > for me whatsoever. It was as meaningless an aside as > > > > if I'd said, "Fuck ketchup." > > > > > > > > > If yes, why? > > > > > > > > Irrelevant. Someday you should learn that the fact that > > > > someone does not necessarily have to feel the same way > > > > about things as you do. Enlightenment, schmitenment. > > > > I've never seen -- or experienced -- any evidence that > > > > it does anything for anyone other than the person who > > > > is experiencing it. It's a *completely* subjective > > > > experience, of no benefit to any other human being. > > > > Living in hope of "attaining" or "realizing" that? > > > > What a waste of life. But living in hope of doing > > > > something nice for someone else? Now that's something > > > > worth living for. > > > > > > > > Given a choice between spending a little quality time > > > > with Maya or being enlightened, and I'd go for Mayatime > > > > anytime. Given a choice of spending time with any > > > > supposedly enlightened being in history -- including > > > > the original Buddha -- and I'd go for Mayatime anytime. > > > > > > > > In all honesty, if you had ever had long flashes or > > > > periods of enlightenment, you might feel differently > > > > about it. I have. I prefer Mayatime, and here-and- > > > > now-time, anytime. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: turquoiseb <[email protected]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:59 AM > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Free Man In Paris, v3.01 > > > > > > > > > > I was having dinner with a friend from work last night in a small > > > > > restaurant on the Ile St. Louis, and it turned into an interesting > > > > > opportunity to teach, and to learn. My friend is someone I work with > > > > > -- > > > > > another American ex-pat, a former jazz pianist turned tech writer, > > > > > originally from San Francisco but living and working here in Europe > > > > > for > > > > > the last dozen years, so we have a lot in common and lots to talk > > > > > about. > > > > > But we wound up talking about none of those things because two people > > > > > came in and sat at the small table next to us. > > > > > > > > > > They were an older woman (but younger than either of us) and a young > > > > > girl (who we learned was 12). The girl heard us talking in English and > > > > > started a conversation, and I'm glad she did. It turns out she is from > > > > > Atlanta, brought here by her grandmother for her first trip to Europe. > > > > > The grandmother is doing this because the young girl is an aspiring > > > > > artist, and she wanted her granddaughter to have the experience of > > > > > seeing this place and its art close up, in person. > > > > > > > > > > And they both turned out to be charming. Both were so open to > > > > > suggestions as to what to see and where to go while in Paris, and my > > > > > friend and I both benefited from hearing them talk about the things > > > > > they'd seen so far. It was like being able to experience them for the > > > > > first time ourselves -- all the excitement, all the wonder. > > > > > > > > > > It was a charming evening, and I hope that we were able to steer both > > > > > of > > > > > them to some sights and experiences they will enjoy and cherish, and > > > > > that will inspire them as they inspired us. My biggest "take away" > > > > > from > > > > > the evening, however, was seeing the joy in the young girl's eyes, and > > > > > in her grandmother's at having been able to help put it there, and > > > > > looking forward to being able to do the same thing some day for Maya. > > > > > > > > > > Fuck enlightenment, or realization, or any of the things that people > > > > > here seem to "live for." If there is anything that'll inspire me to > > > > > keep > > > > > on keepin' on for another few years, it's the idea of being able to > > > > > show > > > > > Paris and other cool places to Maya for the first time... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
