MJ, the next time I go to a TM facility I will let you know, and we can compare notes. Don't hold your breath - it has been a decade and a half, for me, so far, with no particular urge apparent. I did visit a Catholic shrine last summer - that was definitely a religious place.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote: then how do you account for the focus on yagyas, which are Hindu religious ceremonies, the continual focus on celebrating all the Hindu religious holidays and the act of the TMO leaders refering to themselves as rajas and continuing to both practice and promote a somewhat westernized form of Hinduism? Some, including the former skin boy I spoke with characterize the technique itself as a Hindu devotional practice designed to gain the favor of higher powers (gods and goddesses) and as such it really isn't a proper meditation unless you consider the devotional practice to be a meditation. Regardless of how it was presented by M, the technique remains a Hindu devotional practice and with all the other Hindu accoutrements that are draped all around the 20 mins. twice a day, I don't see how you can't see that M and the current TMO leaders have made it into a religion. Of course, one's perception guides all things, and if you don't perceive TM to be a religion, then it isn't for you, but that seems to be a bit of compartmentalization to me. -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 1/15/14, doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... <doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@...> wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2014, 5:10 PM How could TM possibly be a religion?? It is, after all, a technique which leads to fulfillment, of the goals, of ALL the religions, IF one is willing to put in the hard work, and dedication necessary. Fear and bitterness are all I see as the drivers of this stupidity [equating TM to religion]. It is like referring to a kitchen knife as "a murder weapon", when all it is used for, in real life, is chopping carrots. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote: Thanks, Turqb. Nice substantial writing even as I can't agree with you I do appreciate the thought. Almost missed your post for all the personal ankel-biting macros that get posted here. -Buck ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > of course they are lying about it - that's their stock in trade The sadder reality, Michael, one that you may not be aware of from personal experience (or may...that is for you to say) is that they *aren't* lying. Except to themselves. One of the aspects of the disciple mindset (or cult mindset if you prefer) is that people who have bought into a shitload of dogma laid on them by teachers they now revere almost as infallible and as near-gods (think MMY) have an incredible way of *just never thinking about* anything that contradicts that dogma. They stuff any contradictions or cognitive dissonance away back in a corner of their minds -- literally "out of sight, out of mind." So technically many of these people are *not* lying -- consciously -- when they say that TM is not a religion, often only a couple of hours after leaving a "celebration" at MUM in which they chanted and made offerings to Hindu gods. They push the dogma they've been told to repeat -- and which they desperately *need* to be true to keep up their allegiance to this org/cause they've been told is so important -- and they just hide the cognitive dissonance away in the back of their minds and never acknowledge it. I have sadly been there, done that. Both in the TMO and in the Rama trip, so I know it's not only possible, but probable for *most* of the TM Teachers repeating the "TM is not a religion" meme they've been taught to repeat. I myself repeated the "TM is 100% life-supporting and cannot possibly have any negative characteristics" even *while* assigned to the "Twitching Group" in Fiuggi, surrounded by dozens of people like myself experiencing non-stop jerks and spasms and symptoms that looked for all the world like a viral outbreak of Tourette's Syndrome. It took *years* -- after hearing of a number of suicides and seeing people wind up in mental hospitals after long TM courses -- before I became open enough to recognize that I'd been lying to myself, and thus to others. I *wanted* to believe the "no negative side effects" meme, so I managed to blot out recognition and acknowledgement of anything that suggested it wasn't true. I would suspect that many of the people still clinging to the "TM is not a religion" meme are doing the same thing. A few may indeed be consciously aware of the reality and be lying about it, but my bet is that many are still so stuck in the cult mindset that they feel they *have* to believe what they were told to believe, and *have* to repeat it every time the question comes up. Yes, it boggles the mind, but that is the nature of the cult mindset. People who had to learn and memorize the English translation of the TM puja and "hold it lively in their minds" every time they chanted the Sanskrit version of it will look you straight in the eyes and call it a "non-religious, traditional ceremony." *Some* part of them knows that they're lying, but it's a part they can never admit into their conscious awareness. It's really weird, but it happens every day, in pretty much every religion, spiritual organization, and cult in the world. It even happens in business. I remember a documentary about activists who were tried in court for staging a demonstration at a General Electric plant back in (I think) the 60s. The screenplay was largely drawn from transcripts of the actual trials, and thus the under-oath testimony of workers at the plant, *dozens* of whom claimed that they didn't know what they were building in that GE plant. "We just worked there," they all said, claiming that they had no idea that they were working in the largest manufacturing facility for atomic weapons in the world. Every morning they walked in through a main entrance hall in which was prominently displayed the nosecone of an Atlas missile, and yet they claimed that they didn't know what they were building megadeath every day on their assembly lines. Go figure. That's the cult mindset for you -- protect the myths, protect the memes, protect the image of the group that pays you or that you owe allegiance to, hide your own everyday lies by hiding the truth even from yourself, way down deep in parts of your mind that you never allow to surface. That's what I think is going on when any TM Teacher these days claims that the TMO is not a religious organization. They're not necessarily lying to you; they're lying to themselves. > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 1/15/14, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 15, 2014, 4:58 AM > > 'Apostasy is the > formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of > a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy is known as > an apostate.' > As I never was the member of > any religion, I cannot ever be correctly accused of > apostasy. As the TM org claims it is not a religion, so no > one can ever be correctly accused for disafilliating or > abandoning TM as apostasy (unless of course the TM org is > lying about that claim).
