--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- jim_flanegin wrote: > > > > enlightenment does not adhere > > to ANY tradition. It is what it is. Period. > > I've been given to understand that enlightenment > changes quite a bit from one spiritual tradition to > another. I'm told, for instance, that Buddhists > disagree with Hindus on key points, and when > their adherents attain end states they call awakening > or enlightenment, the attainees describe their > experiences differently from one another but > consistent with their traditions.
That is my experience as well. It's as if the myth of enlightenment that members of a tradition grew up with becomes by default the language they use to express the inexpressible. > Native Americans have no such states in their > traditions, suggesting enlightenment is not > something that all traditions recognize. I have spent time with Yaqui shamans and read a bit of Native American traditions, and I have to agree with you. The quest for power, yes. The quest for altered states of consciousness, yes. The quest for an impeccable life, yes. But it's tough to find an analogue for enlightenment as we know it from Eastern traditions. > View determines fruit, as Vaj quoted a master > as saying. Or as Dana Sawyer says, precept > determines percept. I have to agree. That which one expects seems to color awakening into the unexpected. The experience it what it is, but when it comes to describing or interpreting it, one's previously-established view (carried over from and structured in ignorance) seems to become the default. > I'm not sure if I'm disagreeeing with you here, Jim. > I don't know enough about either side of the discussion. > I'm simply expressing some cognitive dissonance with > the statement that enlightenment does not adhere to > any tradition. I don't feel any cognitive dissonance, but that may be because I've had occasional flashes of enlightened states, *and* I've had decades of indoctrination into trying to anticipate and explain such experiences. The anticipation was fruitless; I was waiting for what was already present. And all of the explanations fell flat, because they didn't do justice to the experience. Close, but no cigar. Still, when you're discussing cigars, you need a language to express the differences between a true Havana and a cheap Baltimore Stogie. Even though *no one* you speak to will ever under- stand the difference until they've fired up both. :-) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
