At 11:19 -0400 03/10/09, Christopher Smith wrote: >On Sat Oct 3, at SaturdayOct 3 10:34 AM, Haroldo Mauro Jr. wrote: > >>At 9:51 -0400 03/10/09, Christopher Smith wrote: >>>On Sat Oct 3, at SaturdayOct 3 9:03 AM, Haroldo Mauro Jr. wrote: >>> >>>>I also do not use the chord scale theory as a basis for improvisation nor >>>>in my playing neither in my teaching, simply because I think good melodies >>>>are made of chord tones plus non-harmonic tones, and those can be either >>>>diatonic or cromatic ones. Not all notes of a melody need to be from the >>>>"chord scale". Also, there is no time in improvisation, specialy when >>>>chords change fast, to play a full scale for each chord; and picking up >>>>scale tones at random won't work either in building a good melody. >>> >>> >>>If you say that good melody notes can be diatonic or chromatic ones, then >>>you use chord scale theory. Chord scale theory only tells us which notes are >>>more likely to be considered as "diatonic" rather than "chromatic" and gives >>>us an easy way to practice them. After a while, we just know them and don't >>>worry about it much any more. >>> >>>Christopher >> >>Unless I'm mistaken, chord scale theory says if you are in Cmaj you use C >>major scale for CMaj7, dorian mode for Dm7 phrygian for Em7, lydian for >>FMaj7, etc. What I say that all diatonic non-harmonic tones for all those >>chords come from the C major scale. You build your improvisation with chord >>tones from those chords plus passing tones, neighbooring tones, scale runs, >>whatever... from the C major sale only, or cromatic notes. To say that the >>phrygian mode gives me the diatonic notes for the Em7 chord in Cmajor is >>redundant, don't you think? >> >>Harold > >I don't know about "redundant", but it gets a lot more useful when talking >about the kinds of chords we were discussing. What scale is considered to be >"diatonic" on an Fm chord in the key of C major? F melodic minor is a good >one, but there are cases to be made for F dorian, C harmonic minor (starting >from F, of course, if we are talking about chord scales) and that weird scale >I don't know the name for, like an F lydian but with A flat. > >On Bb7 in Cmajor it is a split between using a passing E or passing Eb, and >chord scale theory helps up with these less-obvious choices (it depends on >context.) > >We were particularly talking about m7(b5) chords, which on a II chord in minor >work nicely with locrian, but as a VI chord in minor or as a II chord in MAJOR >might be better with locrian maj2. > >Christopher > >Sorry, on your original example again, it depends on context. E phrygian on >Em7 might seem obvious in the key of C, but what about bar 3 of Satin Doll? E >Dorian is a perfectly playable scale there, on that chord, and we aren't even >into Freddie Hubbard territory yet. I still think there is a lot of chord >scale theory that can help us. >_______________________________________________
Fm in C major: Diatonic notes are from C minor scale from which it is borrowed, except if it has a maj7, as in FmMaj7, but then it is obvious you need to substitute E for Eb, making it an F melodic minor, up and down. If there is no mention of 7th in the symbol, you may use either scale in improvisation, since you can imply wathever 7th you want added to the chord, because there is no other melody going on. Em7 in Satin Doll You might have a point there. But you still can use F natural in the second Em7, as it goes to Dm7 via its secondary dominant. Also, one usually adds a 9th to the Em7 chord and a 13th to the A7, and that puts you momentarily in the D major region (IIm7-V7 of D), and thus your E dorian scale. My question: how does one know, from the chord scale theory, that the scale to use in the Em7 chord of Satin Doll is the dorian? How does the theory tell you that, except by showing you that for the moment you are in the D major territoty? My point is, if you know what tonal region you are, you can easily figure out what notes are diatonic, and don't need chord scale theory. Harold _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
