Greetings All; I am new to your group, and am moved to contribute by the Machado passage posted by Pedro. Never have I read such a concise and eloquent rendering of how I've come to understand the dynamic physical process of mind and intelligence. The poetic focus this last week, and the thread's original "Far East" infusion, has been refreshing. However, I will try to contribute something towards a more formal expression of intelligence per Joe Brenner's suggestion.
My own research has led me to a number of realizations, not the least of which, very generally stated, is that the question of cognition, mind, and intelligence will only be understood by embracing a paradox of information - not in the the Shannon sense, but in the significance to organisms sense. Namely, to be informed, in the sense that an agent's internal structure re-organizes so as to increase its chance of making significant choices in its indeterminate environment, is to do two seemingly contradictory things at once: 1) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', distinct objects and events in the agent's world that are relevant to it, and 2) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', the relevant inter-relations between these objects and events. And, the crux of the paradox is that these two behaviors are *simultaneous*. Put very briefly, agents evolved to do this, I suggest, because physical reality is itself both distinct events and their inter-relations, *simultaneously*. Here in lies the numerical intractability of the *n*-body problem; because, both the barionic masses and their gravitational attributes co-exist, not as a sequential processes, but as a single unified dynamic. It is here where I think this thread's openness to more (w)holistic world views can be very useful. Never the less, an *n*-body system, though numerically intractable, is still formally knowable to within knowable bounds. So, there is a both/and outcome, where distinct formalism, the so-called Western tradition, are employed as tools to both measure and influence the complex irreducible dynamics of self-adaptive systems. "Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more; wanderer, there is no road, the road is made by walking." Celestial masses both form and are simultaneously formed by the dynamic gravitational terrain, an attribute intrinsically of the system. Similarly, I suggest that brain assemblages of neural, glial, and blood vessel cells both form and are simultaneously formed by their interstitial chemistry and fields into and out of complex terrains of mass and energy. Again, this system is intractable when assessed sequentially. There is a physical, and therefore, simultaneous dynamic between so-called parts and their whole. "By walking one makes the road, and upon glancing behind one sees the path that never will be again. Wanderer, there is no road - only wakes upon the sea." Amazing image. A beautiful rendering of a self-efficacious relationship between the distinct agent(s) and its(their) surroundings at every scale. Cordially, Josh On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan < pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote: > Dear FISers, > > Herewith my contribution to the "poetic intelligence" tangent we have > entered. > It is in Spanish, from the great poet Antonio Machado: > > Caminante, son tus huellas > el camino y nada más; > Caminante, no hay camino, > se hace camino al andar. > Al andar se hace el camino, > y al volver la vista atrás > se ve la senda que nunca > se ha de volver a pisar. > Caminante no hay camino > sino estelas en la mar. > > One English translation could say: > > “Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more; wanderer, there > is no road, the road is made by walking. By walking one makes the road, and > upon glancing behind one sees the path that never will be trod again. > Wanderer, there is no road-- Only wakes upon the sea." > > I find it quite moving, and extremely complex on its meaning, quite > "phenomenological" and deeply neurophilosophical. But above all, impressive. > Thanks are due to Chuan, Stan, Joseph, Francesco... et al. > best---Pedro > > Lee todo en: Caminante no hay camino - Poemas de Antonio Machado < > http://www.poemas-del-alma.com/antonio-machado-caminante- > no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo> http://www.poemas-del-alma. > com/antonio-machado-caminante-no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo > Francesco Rizzo wrote: > >> Caro Joseph e cari Tutti, >> anche se rischio di essere bloccato o frainteso perché non ho voce >> linguistica di moda, nei numerosi interventi precedenti ho sottolineato >> l'importanza della parola composta emo-ra-zionalità, risultato della >> combinazione della "intelligenza emotiva" e della razionalità >> intellettuale. Nessuna descrizione non poetica della realtà può essere >> completa. Ilya Prigogine ha proposto di adottare nel campo della scienza il >> paradigma della musica. Henri Poincarè ritiene, talvolta, le equazioni o le >> funzione un "museo teratologico" ed i modelli paradigmatici una scelta >> "convenzionale" o di comodità o di utilità. In "Incontro d'amore del cuore >> della fede e dell'intelligenza della scienza" (Aracne editrice, Roma, 2014) >> ho sostenuto la necessità del dialogo tra fede, ragione e scienza. Albert >> Einstein afferma che ciò che si può contare (computare) non conta e ciò che >> conta non si può contare (computare). Secondo John D. Barrow che gli >> "aspetti eventuali" del mondo non si possono riconoscere o generare con una >> sequenza di passi logici. La bellezza, la semplicità, la verità sono tutte, >> in questo senso, "proprietà eventuali". Non c'è alcuna formula magica o >> nessun programma o nessuna equazione che può generare tutta la bellezza o >> tutta la bruttezza del mondo. Le mail che ho inviato il 10, 15 e 18 marzo >> (non solo quest'ultima) in modo telegrafico affrontano questa problematica, >> purtroppo, non sono state tenute in considerazione. Ciò mi dispiace, ma non >> mi spinge a trascurare i contributi di tutti Voi che ringrazio per quanto >> m'insegnate. Grazie e affettuosi saluti. >> Francesco Rizzo. >> >> 2015-03-19 19:27 GMT+01:00 joe.bren...@bluewin.ch <mailto: >> joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch <mailto: >> joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>>: >> >> Dear Chuan, Rafael and All, >> >> There is a point in this exchange which perhaps should be >> addressed explicitly: everybody knows that people differ in their >> capacity to appreciate poetry emotionally. But we also differ in >> the capacity to appreciate the importance of poetry and art for >> science; this might be said to require an >> 'intelligence' of poetry. Perhaps someone else can express better >> what I am trying to say here. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Joseph >> >> P.S. Admirers of Basho's haiku are directed to his far superior >> one to which this is a Californian response: >> >> Warm cloudy day in Spring >> Perched on a fresh leafy branch >> A young tow-hee >> >> ----Message d'origine---- >> De : raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de> >> Date : 19/03/2015 - 08:35 (PST) >> À : fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es> >> >> Objet : Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply8 - THE FRONTIERS OF >> INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- an old poem as an echo >> >> >> Dear Chuan, >> thanks for sharing this poem. >> Allow me to thank you also with these texts where I try to >> reflect on Dao and Information Society >> http://www.capurro.de/china_infoethics2010.html >> This is a Chinese translation: >> http://www.capurro.de/beijing2011_chinese_version.pdf >> See also: http://www.capurro.de/DB_Akademie.html >> See also my activities and presentations in China: >> http://www.capurro.de/home-cn.html >> best regards >> Rafael Capurro >> >> Dear Stanley N Salthe and All, >>> >>> I am back to my duty from ten days hard work. >>> Reliving from tired let me come back to the breakpoint – >>> Stanley’s poem echo to Emily – and my draft reply as a new >>> poem the same. I will finish and put out next mail – reply as >>> another poem is “The Song of the Computer” and another poem >>> on Internet. These two have send in our FIS years ago. And >>> now “here a stay, and there a star”, now “ struggling to >>> affect each other from our slowly burning bodies”, let us put >>> these stars here again as a bunch of flower first. >>> >>> Let this as my echo. We can image a Science fiction: >>> long long after, there is a country, there set such an law : >>> if you have not replied an poet’s poem at once, if delay five >>> days, you are evil. So let me use an old poem echo your poem >>> as soon as I finished my heavy work. >>> Thanks for you poem. That is nice! >>> >>> More reply and the new later. >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Chuan >>> 2015-3-19 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- ---原始邮件----- >>> *发件人:* "Stanley N Salthe" <ssal...@binghamton.edu> >>> <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu> >>> *发送时间:* 2015-03-14 03:41:00 >>> *收件人:* "赵川" <zh...@cdut.edu.cn> >>> <mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn> >>> *抄送:* >>> *主题:* Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply7 - THE FRONTIERS OF >>> INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- a poem & the π-festival >>> >>> Chuan, fis'rs >>> >>> Here is a poem I wrote a couple of years ago: >>> >>> internet fellowship >>> is like -- >>> >>> being in heaven? >>> >>> >>> we’re >>> >>> disembodied spirits >>> >>> struggling to affect >>> >>> each other. >>> >>> >>> patterns of ‘on and off’ in the waves and wires >>> >>> like cells in an organism >>> >>> >>> we’re disembodied spirits launched from our slowly >>> burning bodies, >>> >>> the fuel for our cognitions, >>> >>> like charcoal for a flame >>> >>> >>> maybe this is (what) heaven (is like) >>> >>> launched upon the embers of hell. >>> >>> >>> STAN >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:18 AM, 赵川 <zh...@cdut.edu.cn >>> <mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn>> wrote: >>> >>> *Dear FISers, * >>> >>> These days I am doing a heavy and important >>> work that I can not finish my respond mail. Though >>> there are many ideas emerge in my mind. >>> >>> Let me put a poem of Emily DIKINSON in our >>> dear discussion. >>> *OUR SHARE OF NIGHT TO BEAR* >>> >>> >>> >>> Emily DIKINSON >>> >>> Our share of nights to hear – >>> >>> Our share of morning – >>> >>> Our blank in bliss to fill >>> >>> Our blank in scorning – >>> >>> >>> Here a star, and there a star, >>> >>> Some lose their way! >>> >>> Here a mist, and there a mist, >>> >>> Afterwards – Day! >>> >>> 1890 >>> >>> c.1859 >>> >>> For I thought of the image of “here is a >>> star, and there is a star” and looked for this poem >>> to share here. Let us shine and share. >>> >>> Dear Joseph, I agree with the Stanislaw >>> Lem’s opinion. >>> >>> Yes, she is right: afterwards – Day! >>> >>> Tomorrow is π-festival – March 14 - 3.14. I >>> celebrated aπ-festival this afternoon. That is >>> wonderful. And it is the birthday of Einstein the same. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >>> Chuan >>> >>> March 13, 2015 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fis mailing list >>> Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> >>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fis mailing list >>> Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> >>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>> >>> >> >> >> -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der >> Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany >> Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics ( >> http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) >> Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for >> Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University >> of Pretoria, South Africa. >> Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) ( >> http://icie.zkm.de) >> Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics >> (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) >> Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany >> E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de> >> Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) >> Homepage: www.capurro.de <http://www.capurro.de> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> >> >> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------- > Pedro C. Marijuán > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > ------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >
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