Greetings All;
I am new to your group, and am moved to contribute by the Machado
passage posted by Pedro. Never have I read such a concise and
eloquent rendering of how I've come to understand the dynamic physical
process of mind and intelligence. The poetic focus this last week,
and the thread's original "Far East" infusion, has been refreshing.
However, I will try to contribute something towards a more formal
expression of intelligence per Joe Brenner's suggestion.
My own research has led me to a number of realizations, not the least
of which, very generally stated, is that the question of cognition,
mind, and intelligence will only be understood by embracing a paradox
of information - not in the the Shannon sense, but in the significance
to organisms sense.
Namely, to be informed, in the sense that an agent's internal
structure re-organizes so as to increase its chance of making
significant choices in its indeterminate environment, is to do two
seemingly contradictory things at once:
1) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', distinct objects and
events in the agent's world that are relevant to it, and
2) Re-organize so as to represent, or 'know', the relevant
inter-relations between these objects and events.
And, the crux of the paradox is that these two behaviors
are /simultaneous/. Put very briefly, agents evolved to do this, I
suggest, because physical reality is itself both distinct events and
their inter-relations, /simultaneously/. Here in lies the numerical
intractability of the /n/-body problem; because, both the barionic
masses and their gravitational attributes co-exist, not as a
sequential processes, but as a single unified dynamic.
It is here where I think this thread's openness to more (w)holistic
world views can be very useful. Never the less, an /n/-body system,
though numerically intractable, is still formally knowable to within
knowable bounds. So, there is a both/and outcome, where distinct
formalism, the so-called Western tradition, are employed as tools to
both measure and influence the complex irreducible dynamics of
self-adaptive systems.
"Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more; wanderer,
there is no road, the road is made by walking."
Celestial masses both form and are simultaneously formed by the
dynamic gravitational terrain, an attribute intrinsically of the
system. Similarly, I suggest that brain assemblages of neural, glial,
and blood vessel cells both form and are simultaneously formed by
their interstitial chemistry and fields into and out of complex
terrains of mass and energy. Again, this system is intractable when
assessed sequentially. There is a physical, and therefore,
simultaneous dynamic between so-called parts and their whole.
"By walking one makes the road, and upon glancing behind one sees the
path that never will be again. Wanderer, there is no road - only
wakes upon the sea."
Amazing image. A beautiful rendering of a self-efficacious
relationship between the distinct agent(s) and its(their) surroundings
at every scale.
Cordially,
Josh
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
<pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>> wrote:
Dear FISers,
Herewith my contribution to the "poetic intelligence" tangent we
have entered.
It is in Spanish, from the great poet Antonio Machado:
Caminante, son tus huellas
el camino y nada más;
Caminante, no hay camino,
se hace camino al andar.
Al andar se hace el camino,
y al volver la vista atrás
se ve la senda que nunca
se ha de volver a pisar.
Caminante no hay camino
sino estelas en la mar.
One English translation could say:
“Wanderer, your footsteps are the road, and nothing more;
wanderer, there is no road, the road is made by walking. By
walking one makes the road, and upon glancing behind one sees the
path that never will be trod again. Wanderer, there is no road--
Only wakes upon the sea."
I find it quite moving, and extremely complex on its meaning,
quite "phenomenological" and deeply neurophilosophical. But above
all, impressive.
Thanks are due to Chuan, Stan, Joseph, Francesco... et al.
best---Pedro
Lee todo en: Caminante no hay camino - Poemas de Antonio Machado
<http://www.poemas-del-alma.com/antonio-machado-caminante-no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo>
http://www.poemas-del-alma.com/antonio-machado-caminante-no-hay-camino.htm#ixzz3Uv6PQoJo
Francesco Rizzo wrote:
Caro Joseph e cari Tutti,
anche se rischio di essere bloccato o frainteso perché non ho
voce linguistica di moda, nei numerosi interventi precedenti
ho sottolineato l'importanza della parola composta
emo-ra-zionalità, risultato della combinazione della
"intelligenza emotiva" e della razionalità intellettuale.
Nessuna descrizione non poetica della realtà può essere
completa. Ilya Prigogine ha proposto di adottare nel campo
della scienza il paradigma della musica. Henri Poincarè
ritiene, talvolta, le equazioni o le funzione un "museo
teratologico" ed i modelli paradigmatici una scelta
"convenzionale" o di comodità o di utilità. In "Incontro
d'amore del cuore della fede e dell'intelligenza della
scienza" (Aracne editrice, Roma, 2014) ho sostenuto la
necessità del dialogo tra fede, ragione e scienza. Albert
Einstein afferma che ciò che si può contare (computare) non
conta e ciò che conta non si può contare (computare). Secondo
John D. Barrow che gli "aspetti eventuali" del mondo non si
possono riconoscere o generare con una sequenza di passi
logici. La bellezza, la semplicità, la verità sono tutte, in
questo senso, "proprietà eventuali". Non c'è alcuna formula
magica o nessun programma o nessuna equazione che può generare
tutta la bellezza o tutta la bruttezza del mondo. Le mail che
ho inviato il 10, 15 e 18 marzo (non solo quest'ultima) in
modo telegrafico affrontano questa problematica, purtroppo,
non sono state tenute in considerazione. Ciò mi dispiace, ma
non mi spinge a trascurare i contributi di tutti Voi che
ringrazio per quanto m'insegnate. Grazie e affettuosi saluti.
Francesco Rizzo.
2015-03-19 19:27 GMT+01:00 joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>> <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>>>:
Dear Chuan, Rafael and All,
There is a point in this exchange which perhaps should be
addressed explicitly: everybody knows that people differ
in their
capacity to appreciate poetry emotionally. But we also
differ in
the capacity to appreciate the importance of poetry and
art for
science; this might be said to require an
'intelligence' of poetry. Perhaps someone else can express
better
what I am trying to say here.
Best wishes,
Joseph
P.S. Admirers of Basho's haiku are directed to his far
superior
one to which this is a Californian response:
Warm cloudy day in Spring
Perched on a fresh leafy branch
A young tow-hee
----Message d'origine----
De : raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de>
<mailto:raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de>>
Date : 19/03/2015 - 08:35 (PST)
À : fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>>
Objet : Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply8 - THE FRONTIERS OF
INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- an old poem as an echo
Dear Chuan,
thanks for sharing this poem.
Allow me to thank you also with these texts where I try to
reflect on Dao and Information Society
http://www.capurro.de/china_infoethics2010.html
This is a Chinese translation:
http://www.capurro.de/beijing2011_chinese_version.pdf
See also: http://www.capurro.de/DB_Akademie.html
See also my activities and presentations in China:
http://www.capurro.de/home-cn.html
best regards
Rafael Capurro
Dear Stanley N Salthe and All,
I am back to my duty from ten days hard work.
Reliving from tired let me come back to the
breakpoint –
Stanley’s poem echo to Emily – and my draft reply
as a new
poem the same. I will finish and put out next mail
– reply as
another poem is “The Song of the Computer” and
another poem
on Internet. These two have send in our FIS years
ago. And
now “here a stay, and there a star”, now “
struggling to
affect each other from our slowly burning bodies”,
let us put
these stars here again as a bunch of flower first.
Let this as my echo. We can image a
Science fiction:
long long after, there is a country, there set
such an law :
if you have not replied an poet’s poem at once, if
delay five
days, you are evil. So let me use an old poem echo
your poem
as soon as I finished my heavy work.
Thanks for you poem. That is nice!
More reply and the new later.
Best wishes,
Chuan
2015-3-19
-- ---原始邮件-----
*发件人:* "Stanley N Salthe"
<ssal...@binghamton.edu <mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>
<mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu
<mailto:ssal...@binghamton.edu>>
*发送时间:* 2015-03-14 03:41:00
*收件人:* "赵川" <zh...@cdut.edu.cn
<mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn>>
<mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn
<mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn>>
*抄送:*
*主题:* Re: [Fis] Chuan's reply7 - THE
FRONTIERS OF
INTELLIGENCE SCIENCE-- a poem & the π-festival
Chuan, fis'rs
Here is a poem I wrote a couple of years ago:
internet fellowship
is like --
being in heaven?
we’re
disembodied spirits
struggling to affect
each other.
patterns of ‘on and off’ in the waves and wires
like cells in an organism
we’re disembodied spirits launched from our
slowly
burning bodies,
the fuel for our cognitions,
like charcoal for a flame
maybe this is (what) heaven (is like)
launched upon the embers of hell.
STAN
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:18 AM, 赵川
<zh...@cdut.edu.cn <mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn>
<mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn
<mailto:zh...@cdut.edu.cn>>> wrote:
*Dear FISers, *
These days I am doing a heavy and
important
work that I can not finish my respond
mail. Though
there are many ideas emerge in my mind.
Let me put a poem of Emily
DIKINSON in our
dear discussion.
*OUR SHARE OF NIGHT TO BEAR*
Emily DIKINSON
Our share of nights to hear –
Our share of morning –
Our blank in bliss to fill
Our blank in scorning –
Here a star, and there a star,
Some lose their way!
Here a mist, and there a mist,
Afterwards – Day!
1890
c.1859
For I thought of the image of
“here is a
star, and there is a star” and looked for
this poem
to share here. Let us shine and share.
Dear Joseph, I agree with the
Stanislaw
Lem’s opinion.
Yes, she is right: afterwards – Day!
Tomorrow is π-festival – March 14
- 3.14. I
celebrated aπ-festival this afternoon. That is
wonderful. And it is the birthday of
Einstein the same.
Cheers!
Chuan
March 13, 2015
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-- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics
(http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of
Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of
Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
Chair, International Center for Information Ethics
(ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information
Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe,
Germany
E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de>
<mailto:raf...@capurro.de <mailto:raf...@capurro.de>>
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22
<tel:%2B%2049%20-%20721%20-%2098%2022%209%20-%2022> (Fax: -21)
Homepage: www.capurro.de <http://www.capurro.de>
<http://www.capurro.de>
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--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 <tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526> (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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