Dear Karl and Pedro, A unifying principle underlies the organization of physical and biological systems. It relates to a well-known topological theorem which succinctly states that an activity on a planar circumference projects to two activities with “matching description” into a sphere. Here we ask: what does “matching description” mean? Has it something to do with “identity”? Going through different formulations of the principle of identity, we describe diverse possible meanings of the term “matching description”. We demonstrate that the concepts of “sameness”, “equality”, “belonging together” stand for intertwined levels with mutual interactions. By showing that “matching” description is a very general and malleable concept, we provide a novel testable approach to “identity” that yields helpful insights into physical and biological matters. Indeed, we illustrate how a novel mathematical approach derived from the Borsuk-Ulam theorem, termed bio-BUT, might explain the astonishing biological “multiplicity from identity” of evolving living beings as well as their biochemical arrangements.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610717302055 > Il 1 febbraio 2018 alle 17.16 Karl Javorszky <karl.javors...@gmail.com> ha > scritto: > > Biodiversity and Cartography > > > > The excellent summary by Pedro of the session just past highlights > several different areas of processes, which appear to be interrelated at > least in some methodological ways. Pedro says in effect: “… systems such as > circulatory, pulmonary, renal, brain, etc. …” appear to work in a comparable > fashion, which has probably to do with fusing of two different spaces into > one common space. > > > > Please allow me to propose a visualisation. We see a landscape with hills > and valleys. Some local biotopes have evolved, in which specific flora and > fauna are endemic, well adapted to their respective local circumstances. We > suspect that there are common traits present in the management of the diverse > habitats, with some obviously sustainable feedback loops – otherwise the area > would be barren. In this allegory, if one investigates the functions in > circulatory systems, one would be likened to someone investigating insect > life in a rainy forest in a division of our imagined landscape. A person > looking into the workings of the renal systems could be seen as a team > investigating the life of mammals in a savanna. > > > > Among these field workers, a land surveyor tries to find someone who > would be interested in a new way to formalise the parameters of each and all > of the habitats, and tabulate every possible variety of anything that lives > in any of the habitats. This invention is way beyond the needs of any of the > field teams investigating the adaptations the fauna had to undergo due to the > properties of the flora, or partly the other way around. The teams have heard > about trigonometry and satellite positioning, but they are not involved with > the infrastructure of science. It would take a road building engineer to see > slopes and angles everywhere, and of that profession are the biologists not. > The teams could have heard about continual change, because they understand > that change is what life is all about, but they had never thought to be > possible to actually use measurable change tools like one uses a scalable > microscope. > > > > Trigonometry would have remained a special pastime for scientists, had > not lenses, oculars and sextants been produced to the necessary degree of > mechanical precision. For the applications of trigonometry to become > ubiquitous in our everyday life, it was necessary to have achieved progress > in fine mechanics and precision measurement tools. The technology had to keep > step with the ideas. Both the ideas were present and the tools have become > available. The innovation could become integrated into the culture. > > > > Presently, we try to understand the concept of information. In Pedro’s > words: “… two 3D projections are fused into a 4D one. The gain in information > is evident …”. The implication of Pedro’s thought is that sequences, > generally: order, are depositories of information, which gets – in a fashion > – released or actualised in the moment of the fusion of two spaces into a > common, third, space. > > This state of affairs puts the problem with technology and ideas on its > head. We do have the technology to produce any kind of imaginable order and > disorder and to find such closed loops that are self-replicating. What we > lack presently is the understanding by the prospective users that they need > such a tool, and that such a tool is a) thinkable, b) designable, c) > realisable, d) working, e) useful. > > > > To give an example: > > The two spaces Pedro refers to are well defined. They can be observed by > reordering expressions of a+b=c on the properties {a+b,a;b-2a,a;a-2b,b-2a > (A), a+b,b;b-2a,a-2b;a-2b,a (B)}. Euclid spaces (A) and (B) merge together > into Newton space (C), of which the axes are a+b, b-2a, a-2b. The axes of > space (C) have each two sub-axes: this is the reason that 1 logical linear > position can have 4 planar coordinate-pairs. (This was narrated some two > years ago in this FIS chatroom also, being Step Eight of the lecture Learn to > Count in Twelve Easy Steps. Otherwise see: Natural Orders.) > > > > May be suggestion be allowed that it would be more precise to talk of > merging (co-resonance) of planes rather than of merging of spaces. In a > logical sense, the space is generated by a continuous turn of 3 planes and > should not be assumed to have an independent, a-priori existence. > > > > The land surveyor presents his compliments to the officials involved in > managing progress of society and may politely suggest, that some precision > tools have been fabricated, by which the results of the endoscopy of order > and information can be unwrapped, extricated and applied to manifold uses. > > > > > > > > 2018-01-30 14:06 GMT+01:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es >: > > > > Dear FISers, > > > > Apart from the very interesting critique by Sungchul, there is an > > intriguing comment I would like to make respect the new evolutionary views > > presented. I will risk to discuss on a topic, topology, too far from my > > usual fields. So I trust the benevolence of FIS readers. > > > > As far as we have been told, the germ line cells, the gametes, > > contain each one a DNA algorithmic "hemi-description" of the future > > multicellular ensemble organism. When fertilization occurs, the two > > different hemi-descriptions are put together in a unique, complete DNA > > algorithm. Then, paying attention to the BUT (Borsuk Ulam Theorem) insights > > presented in this list by Tozzi and Peters, we might interpret that two 3D > > projections are fused into a 4D one. The gain in information is evident, > > and it is this gain what makes possible the construction of the > > multicellular ensemble. That 4D structures and dynamics are present in the > > multicellular may be evidenced by the fractality of most of that > > construction (systems such as circulatory, pulmonary, renal, brain, etc.). > > Actually the presence of 4D dynamics in cerebral information processing has > > been repeatedly highlighted by different authors. Now, what John Torday > > argues, is that an essential mission of the multicellular construct becomes > > the gathering of adaptive epigenetic marks editing the 3D > > hemi-descriptions, so that the future ensemble may be better adapted to its > > environment... > > > > In the extent to which the above has any cogency, there emerges a > > new disciplinary front to check the enigmatic continuation of the > > gamete/zigote/organism along the eons of life. > > > > Best--Pedro > > > > > > El 24/01/2018 a las 15:33, JOHN TORDAY escribió: > > > > > > > Dear FIS colleagues, Pedro has pointed out > > some rookie errors in my post. You can find my paper "From cholesterol to > > consciousness" at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28830682 > > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28830682 . Hopefully you have access to > > the paper without having to buy it. If you don't please email me at > > jtor...@ucla.edu mailto:jtor...@ucla.edu and i will send you a copy. As for > > addressing consciousness at the cellular/molecular level, I understand that > > the mental health professionals have a problem with consciousness beyond > > the brain/mind. But I consider that anthropocentric. Just like every other > > aspect of our physiology, consciousness is the endogenization of > > environmental factors. In the case of consciousness it is the vertical > > integration of calcium fluxes for all of the cells of the organism. All > > organisms are conscious of their surroundings to one degree or another. And > > self-reference is, in my opinion, a result of the Singularity/Big Bang, so > > it would apply to all organisms, unicellular and multicellular alike. I > > refer to the experiments of Helmut Plattner, exposing paramecia to glucose. > > When the paramecium homes in on the sugar its 'nervous system' of calcium > > flux lights up just like the neurons in our brains. And as to the > > extrapolation from individual consciousness to cosmology based on the > > homologies between Quantum Mechanics and Evolutionary Biology, I see that > > as a means of fully understanding the significance of consciousness as the > > connection between the animate and inanimate as one continuous Singularity. > > It is only in that way that the true nature of Nature can be fully > > understood. As for smaller increments, the work of Daniel Fels on > > electromagnetic communication between cells may hold the answer > > (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4793142/ > > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4793142/ ). > > > > > > Best, John > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan > > > <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear John and FIS colleagues, > > > > > > > > It was nice hearing your response. For technical > > > > reasons of the server, attachments are unwelcome (and often directly > > > > rejected). Send please a web address where interested people can > > > > download your document. Also, it is better if you send directly your > > > > response to FIS list (fis@listas.unizar.es mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es > > > > ). About your content, I see a couple of problems introducing > > > > "consciousness" at the cellular/molecular level. For this term has a > > > > very definite meaning in the ad hoc research that is taken place during > > > > last decades. Conflating it with basic cellular processes may not be > > > > necessary, given that other terms (more realistic ones?) are available. > > > > For instance, I referred to self-referential cognition. In any case, I > > > > agree that classical autopoiesis falls too short of what is needed... > > > > Besides, about the cosmological relationship with fundamental physics, > > > > is it a convenient step? Does it introduce a premature closure in the > > > > bio-informational thinking process? > > > > > > > > Best--Pedro > > > > > > > > > > > > El 22/01/2018 a las 16:02, JOHN TORDAY escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear FISers, I > > > > greatly appreciate Pedro's comments regarding my New Year Lecture. I > > > > fully agree with his comment " That life's physiology is based on the > > > > conjunction of a few principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and > > > > homeostasis-homeorhesis" applies to non-living states too. I did not > > > > intend to make that statement exclusive, and if it sounded like that > > > > Pedro's clarification is important. In fact have just published a paper > > > > entitled "Quantum Mechanics Predicts Evolutionary Biology" which is > > > > predicated on the hypothesis that self-referential self-organization is > > > > the result of the Singularity/Big Bang, Newton's Third Law of > > > > Thermodynamics that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. > > > > That idea would apply to both evolutionary biology and to balanced > > > > chemical reactions alike. As for the question of the emergence of > > > > self-referential consciousness 'right at the beginning', I am in favor > > > > of that concept, as I have expressed it in a recent paper, entitled > > > > "From Cholesterol to Consciousness" (see attached) so I look forward to > > > > reading your comments about that idea as well, since it has the > > > > potential to fully integrate physics and biology in my humble opinion. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Pedro C. > > > > > Marijuan <pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > > FISers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Going to the extreme, I think this year > > > > > > opening lecture can be summarized in three contentious points. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. That life's physiology is based on the > > > > > > conjunction of a few principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and > > > > > > homeostasis-homeorhesis. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. That communication (cell signaling) is > > > > > > an essential factor in the multicellular evolution towards > > > > > > complexity. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. That epigenetic inheritance and the > > > > > > obligate recursion to the unicellular state become the basis of a > > > > > > new evolutionary theory. > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree with point 1, as I think some > > > > > > nonliving states could also be characterized by those principles > > > > > > (eg, chemical cycles/hypercycles in marine vents, and other > > > > > > outcomes derived from "energy flows"); besides, some previous "info > > > > > > stuff" has to be in place. Then I completely agree with point 2, > > > > > > for signaling is not just another characteristic of the cell, it is > > > > > > "the" eukaryotic trait par excellence. And I am curious on how > > > > > > point 3 could be further substantiated... In this respect I > > > > > > recommend the two papers that Bill sent to the list a few weeks > > > > > > ago. Do we need to postulate the emergence of a form of > > > > > > "self-referential cognition" right at the beginning? > > > > > > Perhaps! > > > > > > > > > > > > All the best--Pedro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El 09/01/2018 a las 19:05, Bill escribió: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pedro and Colleagues, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been following the thread of > > > > > > > comments with great interest, all of which have all been > > > > > > > occasioned by John Torday's profound insights about the nature of > > > > > > > evolutionary development in light of the importance of cell-cell > > > > > > > signaling and molecular biology. From the comments, it is clear > > > > > > > that there is a strong impulse to seek a means of integrating the > > > > > > > role of symbiogenesis, viruses and mobile elements, multilevel > > > > > > > selection, niche construction, genomic plasticity into a common > > > > > > > narrative with an informational perspective at its foundation. > > > > > > > In the spirit of that line of > > > > > > > discussion, I am offering two links that discuss evolution as an > > > > > > > biologic information management system. Some of this work shares > > > > > > > direct commonality with John's, since he and I are frequent > > > > > > > collaborators. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm > > > > > > > http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these articles can be > > > > > > > considered as complementary to Pedro's very fine article, 'How > > > > > > > prokaryotes ‘encode’ their environment: Systemic tools for > > > > > > > organizing the information flow', which is in BioSystems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am grateful to John for inviting me > > > > > > > to participate in the forum and to Pedro for encouraging me to > > > > > > > share these manuscripts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William B. Miller, Jr., M.D. > > > > > > > 602-463-5236 > > > > > > > wbmill...@cox.net > > > > > > > mailto:wbmill...@cox.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Pedro C. Marijuán > > > > > > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation > > > > > > Group > > > > > > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > > > > > > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón > > > > > > (CIBA) > > > > > > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0 > > > > > > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > > > > > > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > > > > > > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > > > > mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > > > > > > > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list > > > > > > Fis@listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es > > > > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > Pedro C. Marijuán > > > > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group > > > > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > > > > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) > > > > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0 > > > > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > > > > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > > > > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > > mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Fis mailing list > > > Fis@listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Pedro C. Marijuán > > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group > > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud > > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) > > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0 > > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fis mailing list > > Fis@listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > Arturo Tozzi AA Professor Physics, University North Texas Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
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