This message is from: Karen Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If both are gray, the colt will be gray. If one parent is<
At the risk of being called a know it all (I've been spanked before on this list concerning color), I think the above statement is incorrect, although this is not the first time I've heard it said. Two greys could produce a red, depending on the genetic makeup of each grey. For instance, a horse in the NFHR registry named Veni's Finn is a grey dun whose sire was grey and dam was red. Since Finn is a grey dun (phenotype), we know she carries the "grey" gene. (I've got quotes around that and will expand in a further paragraph.) We also know that she carries a red gene because red was the only color her red dam had to offer. But red is recessive to the "grey" gene, so the grey coloring is what she shows the world. Her genotype is both grey and red. Therefore, when Finn is hypothetically bred, she can give her offspring either a grey or red gene. Now, if we find a grey stallion for Finn who has the same genotype (both grey and red), that stallion can give its offspring either a grey or red gene. Therefore, a hypothetical foal out of Finn by a grey stallion with grey/red phenotype could be either grey or red; with the chances being 75% grey and 25% red. Grey bred to grey can produce red, depending on the genotypes. I started looking through the registry to see if I could find a red born of two greys, but there were so many I only got through half a dozen. Maybe someone with more time or interest can have a look. Now, I used quotes above and it's just a pet peeve of mine. So if you don't like soapbox speeches, scroll down now. I think we Fjord people make this color issue way too complicated by referring to and thinking of each Fjord dun color as a separate gene -- a grey gene or a red gene or a white gene, etc. I'm going out on a limb here (but Sponenberg will back me up http://members.aol.com/mfthorses/sponenbg.htm) to say there is no "grey" gene (or red, or white or even brown). The dun gene dilutes the base color, creating either brown, grey or red duns. The base colors in Fjords are just like the base colors in all horses -- bay, black and chestnut. (Sponenberg doesn't address the base color brown in the initial charts in this website, but Jeanette Gowers of "Horse Colour Explained" groups bays and browns together as closely related genetically.) The addition of a creme gene further dilutes those three duns and creates the white dun, yellow dun and kvit. So, when someone refers to the grey gene, or a grey dun, it's a base color of black that has been diluted by the dun gene. A red dun is a chestnut base color diluted by the dun gene. A brown dun is a bay or brown base color diluted by the dun gene. One dun gene creates three different dun colors depending on what the base color of the horse is. Finally, I'll go off on complete speculation here as to why there is such a variation in shades of Fjord colors. I go right back to base colors of horses -- bay, black and chestnut. Bays have a wide range of shades from very dark mahogany to light enough to look nearly buckskin. It makes sense to me that when you dilute with dun this varied range of base color bay, you're going to get a varied range of brown duns from dark to pale. Sound reasonable? Okay, enough for now. Take this for what it's worth. I'm not a genetics expert and I never played one on TV. Just spend way too much time thinking about Fjords. :^) Cheers! Karen, now in a hotel in Virginia, waiting for my household goods coming from the UK. Also, I'm looking for a Fjord and avidly watching everyone's for sale ads. Looking forward to the Herndon evaluation next month. _________________________________________________________________ Want to help Windows Live Messenger plant more Aussie trees? http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=443698 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
