Larry Well, I was overstating on the 'banning' discussion, sort of to make a point. We all have delete keys (smile). Everyone's idea for console modification is great. As you can see, I posted your white paper later in my reading of the discussions, that is where I think the master programmers and software architecture folks should be putting their effort, and you have largely mentioned below.
Somehow Ken seems to have moved your complete paper on his website, along with the "Teamspeak Quickstart Guide". Could you repost your paper? Your client/server model is the tool which will allow all of this and more. Eric -----Original Message----- From: Larry Loen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:11 AM To: ecellison; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Console running out of room? ecellison wrote: >Frank > > >(snip) >*********************************************************** >Second point. "Running out of real estate" is a poor excuse >for starting to restrict what people can bring out to the >front easily. This is a software radio, for heaven's sake. >If you're running out of real estate, *the design is wrong*. >It shows that the monolithic console has outlived its >usefulness. > >In any case nobody else should be making policy decisions >for me about what's easy to get to and what isn't. It should >be up to me whether I get to see the CWL/CWU switch all the >time or not, and your prerogative contrariwise. >********************************************************** >Truer words were never spoken. > >I think we should have a ban on discussing console changes. Generates >hundereds of messages, and accomplishes nothing, since everyone has their >own preferences. Hundereds of hours were spent on "Beppe's Console" and >design discussions. Still monolithic! > > You? Banning discussion? Relax, my friend. It may look like nothing is going on, but I think something is. This is a classic "Cathedral versus the Bazzar" kind of discussion. The Bazzar types will roll their own. This will eventually include me. For a bazzar to flourish, it needs a lot of discussion, much of it which ultimately goes nowhere. So, I relish the discussion -- I'm looking for new ideas and for people to take potshots at mine. However, there will be other that will have neither the capability or interest in producing their own. These will want a "monolithic" console. One that is blessed, if you will, by someone. That someone is probably preferentially K5SDR. Meanwhile, we're already diverging, a bit. At present, my console of choice is the 1.3.5 _as modified_ by KD5TFD and N8VB. There's the "Sharp console" even though I haven't been able to run it yet. There's stuff going on in Python and Linux. Just because I'm not running those doesn't mean it won't eventually affect me. Or, the official console. Frank has mentioned to me a technology that may make it a bit easier for the "roll your own" types. The COMx and/or TCP/IP is another pathway, running the CAT interfaces, especially if we can all get our hands on the digitized buffers going back and forth. That will allow coders to write little "applet" like things that demo specific interface ideas without having to master either C# or the current codebase. Maybe Frank's technology will do the same as I don't thoroughly understand it yet. And, two pathways wouldn't hurt, here. All that will come. And when it does, experiments will flourish. Console discussions may appear fruitless today because we have some technology limits and coding limits. When the console has a few more holes drilled in it, and becomes more of an API platform than it now is (one way or the other), we'll see a lot more experiments. The best will eventually make their way into the monolithic console. This is a unique situaiton which, I think, we may as well celebrate, because there's no alternative anyway. I've never seen a case where it is possible and even likely to have both a cathedral and a bazaar approach coexist. It would be a uniqueness that would go beyond having a software defined radio. It would be a melding of what so far has never been held together anywhere -- cathedral customers and bazzar customers. In the meantime, I think we do need to encourage discussion and experimentation. I have repeatedly stated that in a year, we may well not recognize this beast. Look how far it has already come. I haven't given up on Beepe's approaches either, by the way. If I can master some of the simpler pathways, I'm likely to try some things out. The winners (mine or, perhaps more likely, the experiments of others) could be taken Beppe's way for the final, new "cathedral" design betimes. And, when I finally get around to coding some of this stuff, I may just go back and "mine" his threads for ideas. Indeed, I wish more of this was taking place on the forum where it might not be so easily lost, but that's another argument for another day. When I first started daydreaming about this SDR potential 10 years ago, I thought I would have to do everything. Besides not being Gerald, it was one reason it stayed a daydream. This GPL-based approach is _already_ far better than I had imagined back then. I have Frank and Bob to do the DSP, which I have no real competence at, and I couldn't hire their kind of talent. So, maybe I can concetrate on areas that either interest me or in which my expertise figures more strongly. We can all work together or, even, separately. For instance, it's kind of a cathedral thing, but I'm interested in adding a logging interface. Bob thinks I should simply "integrate" via the existing loggers and CAT. And, I'm sure many will do so. But, eventually, I suspect some will want a "blessed" logger. Me, I'm bazzar style on this. I just want something that merges with my own unique history (paper, sorted DOS text file of selected QSOs migrated to MySQL). I got my own legacy of past experiments to deal with. But, that may move me toward either a standalone logger or maybe a privately integrated one in the current console. Don't know yet. Have to see. It will all move around, based on our interests. But, some of it will "stick" to the main console, eventually. Larry WO0Z
