To be honest, that kind of intellectual discourse has never gone anywhere, ever,
is a product of modern thinking, and is totally vacuous in the end.
Any theory that has a possessive ("Poussin's Quandry") is always vacuous
and a dead-end.
On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:23 PM, John Carlson wrote:
> John, check out Munchhausen's Trilemma
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma as to why belief
> systems as are they are. Everyone has a belief system, including scientists,
> engineers,and mathematicians. Nothing is firm, including Falun Dafa. Enjoy
> the mystery of everything, including math, science and engineering.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:05 PM, John Pratt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Science cannot believe X because scientific theorem A1 says..."
>
> Here is what I know: the theorem of atoms was ascertained without
> Godel. It was done in ancient Greece.
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:03 PM, John Carlson wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> The FONC grant is done. Let it be. Please leave your email behavior at the
>> door. As to why science cannot believe in such things is because of Godel's
>> Incompleteness Theorems. Science doesn't have an axiom for it like it does
>> for a point (in math).
>>
>> Find the most succinct axiom you can find, and bring it to us. Here are two
>> that could be improved:
>>
>> Something doesn't come from nothing.
>> Complexity doesn't increase.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:33 PM, John Pratt <[email protected]> wrote:
>> These are larger issues, rarely brought up anywhere except in
>> places where people don't counter the mainstream. How is it
>> that FONC needs to exist? Because people don't consider things
>> like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2012, at 3:27 PM, David Leibs wrote:
>>
>>> Are you sure you don't want a response from me? Are you trying to put Alan
>>> in a petri dish?
>>> -David Leibs
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2012, at 3:23 PM, John Pratt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I want a response from Alan Kay on this thread. Then I will leave you all
>>>> alone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 29, 2012, at 3:16 PM, David Harris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What are you on about? How is this related to FONC?
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 3:10 PM, John Pratt <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What sickness science brings to everyday people! They cannot even
>>>>> believe in mysterious things, such as the divine, without first thinking
>>>>> it has to show up on a laboratory microscope.
>>>>>
>>>>> The petri dish has to exist before the thing will be acknowledged as
>>>>> fitting inside a petri dish.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We don't have a petri dish for that. It cannot exist. I cannot study
>>>>> it inside of its petri dish."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tell me where its petri dish is first, then I will believe you and we
>>>>> will go study it."
>>>>>
>>>>> Mystical things of the past are regarded as superstition, described in
>>>>> terms of theoretical, mechanical concepts. Automobiles, air planes, and
>>>>> light rail trains are the indicators of supreme accomplishments given to
>>>>> man by this modern science.
>>>>>
>>>>> Computers, electronics are never questioned for what they are
>>>>> underneath-- a huge mess of chemical circuits. Contemptible expediency
>>>>> in its approach to making its own version of warped plastic and silicon
>>>>> clockwork.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cram as much as you invent into the smallest space possible, sheath it
>>>>> with cosmetic jewelry cases, and sell it to the world, telling the world
>>>>> it is pure jewelry, inside and out. When it happens to hit the floor,
>>>>> the lie is exposed-- a mess of soldering, wires, and toxic chemicals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dazzling athletics, to cram this inelegant approach to match the world's
>>>>> demand for novelty and excitement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pack it all into a tiny package. Call it sheer wizardry and a triumph of
>>>>> modern science. Its engineers confounded by accusations of philistine
>>>>> circuitry-- "engineering, math, and science works! our engineering
>>>>> campus buildings are not ugly-- they are utilitarian! I like math and
>>>>> was good at it in high school."
>>>>>
>>>>> If the shoe fits, wear it regardless of whether the shoe is distasteful
>>>>> in appearance on the outside. Make a distasteful shoe, cover it up with
>>>>> a cosmetic shell. Where there is a problem, an engineer will solve it.
>>>>> Make sure that you don't need a solution you want to know about, however.
>>>>> Just be content that a problem was solved and look the other way when
>>>>> the details are explained of its operation.
>>>>>
>>>>> "That'll do the trick."
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't like parabolas because the world cannot be reduced to two,
>>>>> three, or four axes, thank you very much.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't like polynomials because I want to draw the line before I call it
>>>>> a function of the world, saying that the world consists only of
>>>>> deterministic, reductionist functions. "Oh, then you are just tired of
>>>>> 'discreteness' and you need its polar opposite of discreteness,
>>>>> non-discreteness."
>>>>>
>>>>> Such is mathematics and science today. "Why does no one want to learn
>>>>> math and science anymore??"
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> fonc mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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