On 6/5/14, 7:32 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
--On June 5, 2014 at 11:50:38 PM +0200 Guido Falsi <m...@madpilot.net>
wrote:
On 06/05/14 23:43, Paul Schmehl wrote:
--On June 5, 2014 at 11:18:31 PM +0200 "A.J. 'Fonz' van Werven"
<free...@skysmurf.nl> wrote:
Paul Schmehl wrote:
That decided it was a good idea to completely break ports to force
people to upgrade? You couldn't come up with a warning system
instead
of outright breaking ports? The idiots are apparently running the
asylum. {{sigh}}
It might help to know exactly what you're talking about... What is it
that
broke?
The change to make that causes this when you run pkg commands or try to
build ports:
Unknown modifier 't'
It was done deliberately to break ports so that people would be forced
to upgrade to a supported version.
<https://forums.freebsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46291>
No it was not done "deliberately"
Newer freebsd version moved to a newer make utility, and support for the
old one has been dropped after support for all old releases containing
it was ceased.
So they dropped the support accidentally? Is this really the time to
argue semantics?
Which releases are supported and for how long is well known, and
published in here when a new release is published:
http://www.freebsd.org/security/security.html#sup
The updates are free, as in "no payment needed". What's keeping you from
performing a binary update of the base system every year or so?
I have two hosts on the internet for which the backup system failed.
I didn't catch it right away, so now I'm several days behind on
backups. I need to install a new system, but it requires ports I
don't yet have installed. So now I have two options; upgrade with my
fingers crossed and hope it works or scramble to find some way to
backup before I upgrade just in case the upgrade fails.
Running such an old system as any of the unsupported releases is also
most probably exposing you to security vulnerabilities.
First of all, 8.3 is not an old system. Secondly, you used to be able
to run "old" systems for a long time after support was dropped without
encountering issues like this. Finally, I'm a port maintainer of a
fair number of ports, so FreeBSD isn't free for me. I put a lot of
time into it.
When such a drastic change is made, it should be well advertised in
advance (think the pkgng announcement you get every time you install a
port) and not implemented in such a disruptive manner. It's clear from
the forum announcement that I linked to that I was not the only one
caught by surprise and that it didn't even work on supported versions
when the change was first implemented.
Sometimes to change things you need to break compatibility, the project
did wait till it was coherent with what was promised before doing this.
What you call "the project" is made up of people. SOMEONE should be
thinking through the impact on end users and helping to plan such
major transitions in a way that's least disruptive IF you want the
system to remain viable.
Perhaps this is part of the reason adoption of FreeBSD has dropped so
dramatically over the years. I'm retiring in 18 months. When I
leave, the last FreeBSD system goes with me. No one is even
interested in learning it any more. FreeBSD used to rule the web.
Now it's Linux. There's a lesson in there for those that are
listening, but apparently "the project" is not. Which is sad, because
FreeBSD, IMNSHO, is a very good OS.
There's no need to respond to this. I'm just venting. And clearly my
opinion doesn't matter anyway.
I think your opinion matters.
I agree I would be rudely surprised by such a breakage myself. That
said we need to find a way to desupport things eventually.
Any ideas on what should have been done that can be done in a short
amount of code as possible? Perhaps there's some way to determine
between the old and new makes and just add some kind of target like:
# psuedo make(1) code:
.ifndef THIS_IS_NEW_MAKE
.BEGIN:
echo your system is running an unsupported version of FreeBSD the
last version to support this is r232423
echo please run "svn update -r232423" to get a working ports tree as
of that date or upgrade to a more recent
echo freebsd release using freebsd-update [[insert link to
freebsd-update]]
exit 1
.endif
-Alfred
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