As regards to the quality of my music with/without beer lubrication. I may not, in fact sound any better after having had a couple.
But I don't care. Because I'm enjoying it more. --Doug On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Nicholas Thompson < nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Interesting. **** > > ** ** > > It would seem that this would translate into “thinking better”, on some > problems in some circumstances. Unless “thinking” is defined as “that > cognitive activity that is never improved by drinking.” Of course, one > possibility is that alcohol improves your sense of performance but not your > actual performance. Or, for a time, it might actually improve your > performance by improving your sense of performance. **** > > ** ** > > But there is a real interesting problem here given that alcohol is known > to damage people’s driving ability while often increasing their sense of > the quality of their own driving. **** > > ** ** > > Nick **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On > Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts > *Sent:* Monday, September 17, 2012 12:01 PM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] just faith**** > > ** ** > > Nick, you asked Steve, specifically, but I'm happy to chime in.**** > > ** ** > > I like drinking. It brings me out of my shy, reticent shell, helping me > to become less hesitant in expressing myself.**** > > ** ** > > I also like having a couple of beers before a gig, because either 1) I > play better with a couple of good brews in me, or 2) I care less about > precision and more about relaxing into the spontaneity of performing live > in front of an audience.**** > > ** ** > > --Doug**** > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Nicholas Thompson < > nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:**** > > Steve, **** > > **** > > I am happy to drink, but not because it improves the quality of my > thought. **** > > **** > > There is an idea lurking in this discourse about Whiskey, roughly **** > > **** > > *In vino veritas***** > > * ***** > > Do you think that you think better, in some respects, when you are > drinking? **** > > **** > > Nick **** > > **** > > -----Original Message----- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Smith > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:24 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] just faith**** > > **** > > I am closer in age/experience to Nick/Eric than the presumed youth > generation in question but am also, myself, more a "None" than an "Athiest". > **** > > **** > > It is not (in my case) that I have too many other things going on (though > I do have plenty), it is rather, that I'm not a joiner. Perhaps I "would > not be a member of any club that would have me", but more to the point, I > have always found even the most *inclusive* clubs to be**** > > *exclusive* at the end of the day. I took a short run at attending the > Los Alamos "Universal Unitarians" only to find that the binding feature was > "more tolerant than though" and I frankly could not tolerate that kind of > intolerance! Ultimately clubs are not defined by what you **** > > believe in but defined by what you don't. Or in the case of **** > > MonoTheistic religions, it may seem that belief in their "one true GOD" ** > ** > > is the defining factor, it is really the complement... that you are > excluded by lack of belief in their God/Prophet/GravenImage/etc.**** > > **** > > In the case of Athiesm... I was drawn to it the first time I heard of it.. > *I* wanted to belong to a club whose definition was the *lack* of belief in > "One True God" but it didn't take long for me to discover that the existing > "card carrying Athiests" also defined their "club" in the exclusive... to > wit, you had to firmly (and vehemenently) *disbelieve* in any and all Gods > to keep your good standing. Card carrying Athiests, when confronted with > the likes of me had to force-fit me into the club of "Agnostics" because if > I wasn't as anti-God as they were then I must be a wishy washy fence-sitter > (e.g. Agnostic).**** > > **** > > These distinctions may seem subtle, but they are very real for me.**** > > **** > > I share what I understand to be Doug's position regarding Religion only > not so strongly... and occasionally (only when Doug writes or speaks on > the topic) suspect him of being a proselyte from the Reformed Church of ** > ** > > Cynicism. As with the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Sikhs, Musims *** > * > > and Adi Dharmists, I am much more inclined to let card-carrying Cynics > through my door to try to complete my conversion (as I do have and express > sympathies with all the above Religions from time to time) if they are also > carrying a nice bottle of Whiskey, Bourbon, Gin or Tequila to lubricate the > conversation.**** > > **** > > Oddly, only a very few proselytes of any religion seem to allow or the > ingestion of strong spirits (poisoning the body, mind, soul?). This is > what draws me most perhaps to "the modern Cynics" (as opposed to the > classical version with which I think I have even more affinity in their > pursuit of "Virtue in alignment with Nature"). If I were a true child of > the sixties, I would perhaps require them to be carrying some > yet-more-toxic and mystical-experience-inducing substances... but I'm not. > **** > > **** > > It all started perhaps when I refused a draft card, now it is tamer as I > refuse the AARP card I suppose, but the principle holds. I only wish I'd > had the temerity to refuse the Social Security card.**** > > **** > > - Steve**** > > > Well atheism would only convey a negation of belief (in God) to me. My * > *** > > > religious model has no problem accommodating atheists, and contrawise ** > ** > > > I have no problem with an atheist's belief model built around no-God *** > * > > > (or Gods or gods or GOD ...). As long as it functions its irrelevant *** > * > > > whether a car (or religion) runs on gasoline or horse-manure or hot **** > > > air.**** > > > **** > > > My religion (loosely called "Adi Dharm") originally reduced the 330 **** > > > million "gods" of Hinduism down to one ("Brahma" the absolute **** > > > reality). Having done that very successfully we were forced to go **** > > > underground in the previous century, and a not insignificant portion *** > * > > > of our adherents became "godless" Communists. Today we don't have a **** > > > conception of a God as a father / creator figure. Instead we conceive ** > ** > > > God as "the" principle which regulates existence/ the uinivers/ **** > > > multiverse/ parallel worlds or whatever. Deus is the "mechanism behind * > *** > > > the clock" and not the "clock maker". The issue is whether atheists **** > > > also acknowledge that there is a principle (or law . or set of laws) *** > * > > > which govern "their" universe.**** > > > **** > > > I agree with Eric, newer generations are not interested in **** > > > philosophical systems any more or artificial religious categories.**** > > > There are too many other things going on in their lives.**** > > > **** > > > On 9/17/12, Nicholas Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote:**** > > >> Sarbajit,**** > > >> **** > > >> Given your range of experiences with the religious, I am curious for ** > ** > > >> your reflections on atheism as a religion. When push comes to shove, * > *** > > >> are we atheists any the less religious, in the very broadest senses of > that term?**** > > >> In what ways?**** > > >> **** > > >> Nick**** > > >> **** > > >> -----Original Message-----**** > > >> From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On * > *** > > >> Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy**** > > >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:51 AM**** > > >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group**** > > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] just faith**** > > >> **** > > >> Platinga's view is fairly well aligned with the beliefs of my own **** > > >> faith even though our "God" may be different. We all develop our own ** > ** > > >> models of reality, apparently the trick is to ensure that these **** > > >> models are robust enough accommodate everybody else's gremlins, **** > > >> devils, zombies, or maulvis and still continue to function.**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> I probably know more Muslim's personally then half the members on **** > > >> this list.**** > > >> My neighbour is a Muslim and I also employ Muslims. India is a **** > > >> secular country whose 13% Muslim population is free to migrate **** > > >> anywhere in the world which will take them in - not many do. India's * > *** > > >> Muslims when asked (by foreigners such as the BBC or the NYT) usually * > *** > > >> volunteer they consider themselves to be better off in India **** > > >> vis-a-vis their brethren in Muslim countries like Pakistan or Iran *** > * > > >> (notwithstanding the occasional bouts of communal frenzy which **** > > >> develop over pigs feet or beef entrails being thrown by the butchers ** > ** > > >> of each community).**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> India was ruled for over 200 years by Muslims as was China (Yuan > dynasty).**** > > >> America probably needs to experience Muslim rule for some time to **** > > >> develop a sustainable and robust reality model. The "Dune" SF series ** > ** > > >> was heavily influenced by Islamic models.**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> OT: Interestingly, "Islamic science fiction" is an emergent **** > > >> discipline in the Arabic world to attract younger followers to the **** > > >> world of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> Sarbajit**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> On 9/17/12, Roger Critchlow < <mailto:r...@elf.org <r...@elf.org>> > r...@elf.org> wrote:**** > > >> **** > > >>> Reading**** > > >>> **** > > >>> <http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-de** > ** > > >>> fen>**** > > >> http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/sep/27/philosopher-defe** > ** > > >> n**** > > >> **** > > >>> ds-religion/**** > > >>> was**** > > >>> a rather odd experience this week, mixed in with Sam Bacile, the **** > > >>> Salafists, the zombies, and whatever.**** > > >>> The review is by a non-believer (Thomas Nagel) who finds the book, *** > * > > >>> written by a believer (Alvin Plantinga), very interesting, even **** > > >>> though he doesn't believe it. Plantinga's day job is analytic **** > > >>> philosophy, so he gets very precisely into what he thinks it is that * > *** > > >>> his faith and his beliefs do for him. Finally, the main argument is * > *** > > >>> sort a grand slam of creationism: we wouldn't be able to correctly *** > * > > >>> figure out how the world works if the deity, more specifically the *** > * > > >>> deity that Plantinga**** > > >> believes in, wasn't helping us**** > > >> **** > > >>> along the way. Why would natural selection by itself care anything** > ** > > >>> about**** > > >>> the truth?**** > > >>> As the reviewer says: "The interest of this book, especially for **** > > >>> secular readers, is its presentation from the inside of the point of * > *** > > >>> view of a philosophically subtle and scientifically informed **** > > >>> theist-an outlook with which many of them will not be familiar."**** > > >>> -- rec --**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > >> ============================================================**** > > >> **** > > >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv**** > > >> **** > > >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, **** > > >> archives, unsubscribe, maps at <http://www.friam.org> **** > > >> http://www.friam.org**** > > >> **** > > >> **** > > > ============================================================**** > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe * > *** > > > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at **** > > > http://www.friam.org**** > > **** > > **** > > ============================================================**** > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv**** > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, > unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org**** > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org**** > > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- > Doug Roberts > drobe...@rti.org > d...@parrot-farm.net**** > > http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins**** > > > 505-455-7333 - Office > 505-670-8195 - Cell**** > > ** ** > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Doug Roberts drobe...@rti.org d...@parrot-farm.net http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins <http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins> 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
