Steve, OK. Those seem like two distinct meanings of "faith." I was talking and thinking of your second one.
*-- Russ * On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > > Steve, Your post is too long for me to comment on it here. > > > Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an article > of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously adopted element not > backed up by the same type of validation seems pretty concise? > > > > > > *-- Russ Abbott* > *_____________________________________________* > * Professor, Computer Science* > * California State University, Los Angeles* > > * My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688 > * > * Google voice: 747-*999-5105 > Google+: plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ > * vita: *sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ > CS Wiki <http://cs.calstatela.edu/wiki/> and the courses I teach > *_____________________________________________* > > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES <e...@psu.edu> wrote: > >> But Russ... if you concede Tory's point, then I think you are quite stuck. >> >> There are many, many, many people for whom the everyday world contains a >> divine being... and the everyday world is the everyday world. There are >> people who train hard to see God surrounding them, and there are people for >> whom it seems to come quite naturally (which is not to say it didn't >> develop, just that it came easily). For these people, by your definition, >> belief in God, and belief that God will continue to be with them forever, >> are NOT issues of faith. >> >> Eric >> >> P.S. I have no idea what Nick will say about "faith" vs. "belief"! I >> think the concepts overlap pretty obviously, i.e., faith seems like it >> should be a subclass of belief. On the other hand, one could treat them as >> two different ways of talking about the same sort of thing. If we can get >> past your odd claim that faith has to be religious AND that religious >> things are not part of everyday life, I would be very interested to know >> how you think the two relate. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:41 AM, *Russ Abbott <russ.abb...@gmail.com>*wrote: >> >> Nick, >> >> As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" >> are synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith" that distinguishes it >> from "belief." >> >> Tory, >> >> Thanks for you comment on my posts. I'm glad you enjoy them. >> >> My definition of faith makes use of the notion of the everyday world. >> But I'm not saying that the everyday world is the same for everyone. >> Your everyday world may be different from mine. I'm just saying that >> believing that the world will continue to conform to *your *sense of >> what the everyday world is like is not faith; it's simple belief. >> >> Eric, >> >> I would take "having faith in something" in the colloquial sense as >> different from "faith" in a religious context, which is what I was focusing >> on. >> >> *-- Russ * >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Victoria Hughes < >> victo...@toryhughes.com <#139f6c105d9cc31a_139f6a3e427f43ce_>> wrote: >> >>> >>> Russ wrote, in part- >>> >>> Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier) >>> >>> >>> is believing something that one wouldn't otherwise believe without >>> faith. >>> >>> >>> Believing that the everyday world is the everyday world >>> >>> >>> doesn't seem to me to require faith. >>> >>> >>> Russ, with all due respect for the enjoyment I get from your posts, I >>> find this suspiciously tautological. >>> >>> Who are you to define for the rest of humanity (and other sentient >>> life forms) what 'the everyday world' incorporates? Numerous 'for instance' >>> cases can immediately be made here. All you can do is define what you >>> believe for yourself. You cannot extrapolate what is defensible for others >>> to believe, from your own beliefs. >>> >>> And this statement ' Faith is believing something that one wouldn't >>> believe without faith'. Hm and hm again. >>> >>> Eagleman's new book >>> Incognito<http://www.amazon.com/Incognito-Secret-Lives-David-Eagleman/dp/0307389928/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348460523&sr=1-1&keywords=incognito+by+david+eagleman> >>> offers >>> fruitful information from recent neuroscience that may interest others on >>> this list. His ultimate sections bring up hard questions about legal and >>> ethical issues in the face of the myriad 'zombie programs' that run most of >>> our behaviour. This looks like - but is not as simplistic as - 'yet another >>> pop science book.' >>> >>> A review David Eagleman's "Incognito" - >>> Brainiac<http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/brainiac/2011/06/david_eaglemans.html> >>> >>> Tory >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ------------ >> >> Eric Charles >> Assistant Professor of Psychology >> Penn State University >> Altoona, PA 16601 >> >> >> > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
