Made sense to me.
On Sep 23, 2012, at 11:29 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
Random anecdotal examples aside, my central point of "faith" as an
article of a validated model vs "Faith" as a more consciously
adopted element not backed up by the same type of validation seems
pretty concise.
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/
abstract=1977688
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CS Wiki and the courses I teach
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On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:58 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES <e...@psu.edu>
wrote:
But Russ... if you concede Tory's point, then I think you are quite
stuck.
There are many, many, many people for whom the everyday world
contains a divine being... and the everyday world is the everyday
world. There are people who train hard to see God surrounding them,
and there are people for whom it seems to come quite naturally
(which is not to say it didn't develop, just that it came easily).
For these people, by your definition, belief in God, and belief
that God will continue to be with them forever, are NOT issues of
faith.
Eric
P.S. I have no idea what Nick will say about "faith" vs. "belief"!
I think the concepts overlap pretty obviously, i.e., faith seems
like it should be a subclass of belief. On the other hand, one
could treat them as two different ways of talking about the same
sort of thing. If we can get past your odd claim that faith has to
be religious AND that religious things are not part of everyday
life, I would be very interested to know how you think the two
relate.
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:41 AM, Russ Abbott <russ.abb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Nick,
As I understand your position the words "faith" and "belief" are
synonyms. I would prefer a definition for "faith" that
distinguishes it from "belief."
Tory,
Thanks for you comment on my posts. I'm glad you enjoy them.
My definition of faith makes use of the notion of the everyday
world. But I'm not saying that the
everyday world is the same for
everyone. Your everyday world may be different from mine. I'm just
saying that believing that the world will continue to conform to
your sense of what the everyday world is like is not faith; it's
simple belief.
Eric,
I would take "having faith in something" in the colloquial sense as
different from "faith" in a religious context, which is what I was
focusing on.
-- Russ
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Victoria Hughes <victo...@toryhughes.com
> wrote:
Russ wrote, in part-
Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier)
is believing something that one wouldn't otherwise believe without
faith.
Believing that the everyday world is the everyday world
doesn't seem to me to require faith.
Russ, with all due respect for the enjoyment I get from your posts,
I find this suspiciously tautological.
Who are you to define for the rest of humanity (and other sentient
life forms) what 'the everyday world' incorporates? Numerous 'for
instance' cases can immediately be made here. All you can do is
define what you believe for yourself. You cannot extrapolate what
is defensible for others to believe, from your own beliefs.
And this statement ' Faith is believing something that one wouldn't
believe without faith'. Hm and hm again.
Eagleman's new book Incognito offers fruitful information from
recent neuroscience that may interest others on this list. His
ultimate sections bring up hard questions about legal and ethical
issues in the face of the myriad 'zombie programs' that run most of
our behaviour. This looks like - but is not as simplistic as - 'yet
another pop science book.'
A review David Eagleman's "Incognito" - Brainiac
Tory
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Eric Charles
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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