Glen -

I'll save you and the rest of the list my long-winded point by point response (written but ready for delete) and try to summarize instead:

I understand now your connection between communication and tool (mis)use.

I think we disagree on a couple of things but I am sympathetic with what I think you are reacting to here. I react to it with others myself:

I honestly don't agree that we *are* our extended phenotype, but accept that you do. It is an important difference and may explain much of our other disagreements.

I accept that we *might not* have as much choice as I suggest about the development and use of our tools, but I think our choice is maximized by seeking to exercise it, even if it is limited.

We do disagree about the relative rates of change. Biological evolution (scaled at thousands of years) of humans may have kept pace with technological evolution right up to the neolithic. Sociological evolution (scaled at tens or hundreds of years) might have kept pace with technological evolution until the industrial or perhaps the computer revolution. I honestly believe that significant technological change is happening on the scale of years or less.

I agree that our perception of both technological change and it's effects is *amplified* by how the very same technology has shrunk the world (through communication and transportation).

I agree that we have fetishised tool acquisition and possession and that this does not equal facility much less mastery with the tools. But I claim this aggravates the situation, not alleviates it.

I am sympathetic with the feeling that there are many Chicken Little's about shrieking the end of the world with the thinnest of evidence sometimes. I may sound like that to you. I'm trying to pitch my voice an octave below that, but I may be failing.

I honestly believe that we have reached a scale of technology that risks self-extermination and that this is exacerbated by the introduction of new technology faster than we can come to sociological grips with it (much less biological adaptation). The stakes are high enough that I would prefer to err on the conservative side. I accept that you do not agree with me on this general point.

I share your experience that many people who _think_ they are competent at handling dangerous things (such as guns) are not. Fixing that (acknowledging the incompetence and acting on it by forgoing the privilege or by becoming competent) is the only answer. Attempts at gun control seem to aggravate the problem. I believe Australia's success in this matter might be a reflection of their readiness as a culture to embrace the first solution. We seem to be some distance from that.

- Steve
Steve Smith wrote at 01/15/2013 05:43 PM:
a fatally wrong assumption underneath: that "we" can be distinguished
from "technology".  I'm pretty sure we've covered this ground as well.
I can sum it up with the aphorism:

    "The problem with communication is the illusion that it exists."
My turn to be puzzled.   Is this a non-sequitur?
Well, _I_ don't think so.  But many others have accused me of committing
non sequiturs on a regular basis.  That's the trouble with thoughts
(including logic), you could rightly accuse me of the fallacy if the
progression in your own head is missing some pieces.  But that does not
mean the progression in my head is missing any pieces.  In the end, it
all boils down to the axiom of choice (the discretization of concepts).

In any case, my point is that communication is supposed to occur by the
reification of the thoughts of the sender into a medium and the
reconstruction of those same (or similar _enough_) thoughts inside the
receiver.

The reification into the medium is _invention_, specifically the
creation of a tool.  But I'm arguing that an inventor's tools are merely
abused if used by another who is dissimilar enough.  The conclusion is
that communication between dissimilar people does not exist.  The
application is that guns and 3D printers are natural to some and
unnatural to others. [*]

I do agree that since Homo Habilis (or even earlier) that our phenotype
has been extended by the technology which we have developed and/or
mastered.  We can only separate ourselves from our technology in that we
*can* choose what technology we pursue development of and what
technology we adopt once developed.  We can choose it for ourselves, but
I contend, not for each other (the crux of gun control).
I try to be empathetic when I read e-mails.  But I am driven to point
out that the way you use that language picks at me.  You say "our
phenotype has been extended by the technology".  But I mean "we are our
technology".  I.e. technology is as much a part of us as, say, eyeballs
or arms.

I don't follow this entirely, but I do agree with the gist of it. While
I may sound like a Luddite of the highest order, I'm not.  I'm merely
caught in what I perceive to be a paradox which I think effects us all
once we consider it.
Perhaps a more formal statement of the paradox would help?

This is precisely what I'm trying to illuminate:

1. To make and use tools is irreversibly our nature.
Agreed.

2. Our tools and toolmaking is on the verge of facilitating our
    self-extinction.
I disagree.  I would agree to a softer, more neutral statement, though
... something like this:  Our tools and toolmaking can and do
participate in both positive and negative feedback loops that inhibit
and facilitate our survival.

3. We have choices in *how* we extend our phenotype but no methodology for
That seems unfinished.  Perhaps you mean "...for choosing"?  I think I
disagree to some extent, as I'll address below.

The last century has shown a quantitative and perhaps qualitative (with
the introduction of stored code/data computing machinery) acceleration
in our toolmaking.  Our "tools" for addressing items 2 and 3 above are
fairly limited.   They appear to be combinations of religious zealotry
and corruption fueled lobbying and lawmaking.
I definitely disagree with this.  I don't see any acceleration.  (I
don't buy the "singularity" or "Abundance" rhetoric either.)  What I do
see is an accelerating _awareness_ of the effects of our infestation of
the earth.  Our toolmaking should (and I think does, though I have no
serious evidence) track tightly with our biological evolution.  So, if
there is an acceleration, we should see a correlate in the acceleration
of our biological evolution.

A more likely speculation is that, as we increase in population density,
it becomes more and more (combinatorally) obvious what effect any one of
us (mostly others, but ourselves for the more reflective amongst us) has
on their environment.  E.g. the fact that my neighbors' houses are so
damned close to my house makes me very aware of when they use their leaf
blower.

The acceleration in toolmaking you perceive is really caused by
collective behavior, an order or more beyond the making of tools.  In
other words, these collectively produced artifacts are not tools (by my
definition) because they don't really serve any pass-through purpose.
In many cases, they have become ends in themselves.

This can be considered a pathology.  E.g. A CEO whose objective is
simply to _grow_ a company.  If that's the case, the company (a human
created artifact) is no longer a tool.  It's now an end in and of
itself, at least to that CEO.  But it might also be considered healthy
in some circumstances.

In any case, I don't see an increase in our toolmaking so much as an
increase in our awareness of the impacts of our toolmaking.

Ultimately, what technology we develop and use is a personal choice,
even if we want to dictate or legislate it for others, the nature of
technology is no longer easy to control and in many cases, the
*individual* is becoming capable of developing and executing amazing
technological feats without the aid (permission) of society at large.
As I said after #3 above, I disagree somewhat.  The extent to which we
have a choice in our toolmaking is debatable.  I think Nick's been the
champion of evidence showing that our feelings are are really the after
effects of our behavior.  Analogously, we can the same way about free
will and the choices we actually have or don't have.  To what extent do
we really have a choice in which tools we develop?


[*] The problems come when we have unrealistic impressions of ourselves.
  Most of the yahoos I met at the gun show two weekends ago _think_ guns
are natural for them.  But I think they're wrong. My guess is that a
large percentage of those people are completely incompetent handling guns.



============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Reply via email to