Nick, Absolutely different. But, in ways we have barely touched upon, potentially complementary. War required both strategies PLUS some means of meaningful interaction.
Challenge: I have tried and failed, so far, but can you pose the exact same set of metaphors but absent the military/violence words? davew On Wed, Jan 2, 2019, at 6:05 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Dave, > > I dunno, Dave. I still think we're different. I lay siege to large > cities; you send cavalry deep behind enemy lines. > > Nick > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 4:37 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Abduction > > while typing my last response, the conversation took an interesting > turn, prompting the following. > > I went to college intending to become a quantum chromodynamicist. Before > college I had read every 'popular' science book on Physics and Cosmology > (Asimov, etc,) and monographs used in graduate classes on physics. > Physics 101 was so dull, I quit. > > What had attracted me to physics and cosmology were the "big" questions, > the "how" questions, the "why" questions, the interpretation > (philosophical) questions. > > Serendipitously, I was taking an Asian Philosophy class the same first > semester of freshman year. The philosophical questions raised were, like > the speculative questions of quantum interpretation and cosmology, so > interesting I was hooked. I became a 'philosopher' instead of a > 'physicist'. > > I wanted (still want) to know everything there is to know about the > mind, including altered states of consciousness. My research included > being hooked up to a computer and measuring brain waves, multiple forms > of meditation, all of the seven forms of classical Yoga, and psychedelic > drugs. LSD was still legal and my supply came through the auspices of > the Psychology Department. Other experiments included LSD, psylicibin, > and mescaline (not all at once) in a sensory-deprivation tank. Since > then I have experimented with every psychoactive drug. > > Never to get high. > > The most serious side effect (other than my obvious insanity) is > extreme isolation/loneliness; and/or, if I have the temerity to raise > the subject among my intellectual friends, ostracism. > > Gillian posted recently about the psychedelic effects of incense. It was > demonstrated long ago that not only does the incense but the ritual of > church affects the same areas of the brain and induces the same effects > as "augmented meditation" (microdoses of certain types of hallucinogen > like ayahuasca. The context of the research was the Catholic Mass in > Latin and the silent meditation of the Quakers. > > There is such a huge area of interesting, at least to me, research, and > not just for therapeutic use, here that it annoys me when a combination > of puritan morality and scientific elitism dismisses the entire subject. > > davew > > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019, at 12:50 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: > > I claim the answer to your 2 questions is yes. As Marcus (with the > > usage classes) and Steve (with behavioral "drugs") point out, the > > reason people engage in such things is to make their lives *better* > > (according to some definition of "better"). To think anything else is > > to risk the madness of morons like Nancy Reagan or those who think > > alcoholics suffer from a moral failing, rather than a physiochemical one. > > > > You want your insulin pump to make your life better than it would be > > without it. Simple. Rational. > > > > As Dave pointed out, though, we have some very promising therapeutic > > agents that we've ignored because we've been hoodwinked by the moral > > proselytizing of anti-science nutbags who think like Scientologists -- > > Clear Body, Clear Mind and all that. > > > > On 1/2/19 11:33 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > > So is THAT the spirit in which people take psilocybin? Is that the > > > spirit in which people welcome the legalization of LSD? I fear I may > > > have wronged them horribly. To be so far from a moderately happy life to > > > want to derange one's entire experience for even only a few hours, seems > > > like a terrible thing to me. I regard sanity as an achievement, not a > > > state of affairs into which life naturally folds. I would no more take > > > LSD than crumple up a piece of paper before I put it in the printer. > > > > -- > > ☣ uǝlƃ > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove