On 5/5/20 3:04 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > Dammit, Nick. I can and frequently do spend hours planning, > remembering, composing emails, fantasizing about my next car, etc > without exhibiting any remarkable behavior beyond eyeblinking, > touching my face (don't!), crossing and uncrossing my legs. We've > been through this before but what is my latest plan about what to do > when my auto lease is up? No one knows but me despite your claim that > I don't have private access to these kinds of things.
And following (weakly I am sure) Glen's reference to "holographically", I believe that if we record/observe *all* of your behaviour down to the minutest detail, we can learn a LOT about that inner state. If we had that data from the *last* time you approached buying a new car (maybe years out) we might recognize the specific patterns of leg-crossing and eye-blinking and chair-leaning that go with fantasizing about that muscle-car inspired anti-proton powered 6 wheel-drive hub-motor flying car you have been jonesing on! I'm somewhat with Glen (as I understand him in this conversation) on the ideation that inner and outer is somewhat mutable. Sometimes the 6-rotor flying drone-car I fantasize (and blame on Frank) flitting around in is *part of* *me* and other times it is what I interface *to* and *it* interfaces (mostly) to the air (and sometimes to the water, the ground, and unfortunately a tall tree here and there). When I am composing a message *to* this august body named FriAM, I often think of youse alls as "external" to me, but if I'm talking to one of the philistines in my life who do NOT spend all their time talking/thinking about these kinds of things (whatever these kinds are), I sometimes think of myself as being *of* "the FriAM" rather than "in the FriAM" (or is that FriAM pan?). > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:36 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi,Glen, > > Careful. Isn't the formulation "inner world" entirely > contradictory? > > N > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ? > Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:50 PM > To: FriAM <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Warring Darwinians for Glen, Steve > > However, I think we can come up with a (maybe someday) testable > hypothesis based on hidden states. In principle, if EricC's > principle is taken seriously, the inner world of a black box > device will be *completely* represented on its surface (ala the > holographic principle). Any information not exhibited by a black > box's *behavior* will be lost/random. > > This implies something about the compressibility and information > content of the black box's behavior, right? > > On 5/5/20 10:38 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > This does not advance an argument against the possibility of a > computer thinking — merely an assertion that "behavior" is not a > valid basis upon which to argue that they do. > > > -- > ☣ uǝlƃ > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. > .- ... .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. > .- ... .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > > -- > Frank Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > 505 670-9918 > > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... > .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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