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--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:00 AM Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: > Oh, forgot to clearly identify the irony: ;-) > > Doing diligence on this crap is way exhausting. I am entirely in sympathy > with your dilemma. > > Even if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be a useful treatment > in situations where no other treatment is available. And fabricating > evidence of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the patients and the > medical staff in that situation. A placebo can be better than nothing, a > placebo with a bogus story behind it can be even better. > > -- rec -- > > -- rec -- > > On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: > >> Pieter -- >> >> I looked over the links you listed. >> >> They seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin caused the spike in Covid >> cases in India, and also that administering ivermectin caused the end of >> the spike in Covid cases. Both of these claims are sort of hard to >> evaluate, since I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever distributed >> ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc kits very widely, either before or after the >> spike in infections. Constructing and delivering kits for 1.366 billion >> people would have been quite an achievement for any economy. >> >> I followed the links to https://c19ivermectin.com/ and found the list of >> ivermectin studies. The list presented currently claims 110 studies, 68 >> peer reviewed, 64 involving control and treatment groups, but it's puffed >> up with another 50 entries which are news clippings, press releases, >> meta-analyses, reviews, and other miscellanea. >> >> I looked an early review article, >> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf, though the pdf is >> hosted at nature.com, it's from a different journal. >> >> The Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602 >>> https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z >>> Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 >>> complementary regimen Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3 >>> 1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur >>> University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran >>> 2 Kish International Campus, University of Tehran, Tehran, Iran >>> 3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research Center (IVORC), Austin, TX, >>> USA >>> Abstract >>> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of >>> diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as >>> a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including >>> some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of >>> ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the >>> past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on >>> RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra, >>> Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest, >>> Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, >>> Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome >>> coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral >>> effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK >>> polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1. >>> Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore >>> it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of >>> viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense >>> single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a >>> broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials >>> are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical >>> setting >>> >> >> The quick read is that ivermectin interferes with viral reproduction *in >> vitro*, but fails to work *in vivo*, for all of these viruses. It's >> been tried against every virus that's turned up in the last 50 years, had >> some *in vitro* anti-viral activity, but never became an approved >> treatment for any of them. >> >> It must be that the elites are consipring. That's the only reasonable >> explanation for the facts. >> >> -- rec -- >> >> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp < >> piet...@randcontrols.co.za> wrote: >> >>> Nick, >>> >>> Thanks for pointing out that my message is not very clear. Let me >>> rewrite it with a change in wording, I hope it's better this time. >>> >>> I believe that the study that Marcus referred to above , >>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid >>> , >>> is most probably correct. >>> >>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol, >>> there are no benefits against covid in using ivermectin. Does that mean >>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that >>> do give benefits? >>> >>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some >>> (see references below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in >>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have >>> better information? I'd like to know. >>> >>> References: >>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/ >>> >>> >>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf >>> >>> >>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/ >>> >>> >>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/ >>> >>> >>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/ >>> >>> Pieter >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13, <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Pieter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Did you perhaps leave out a link? Which study? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nick Thompson >>>> >>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Pieter >>>> Steenekamp >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:09 PM >>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin, nope >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe this study is most probably correct. >>>> >>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol, >>>> there are no benefits against covid in using ivermectin. Does that mean >>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that >>>> do give benefits? >>>> >>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some >>>> (see reference below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in >>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have >>>> better information? I'd like to know. >>>> >>>> References: >>>> >>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/ >>>> >>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf >>>> >>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Pieter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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