Thanks for the comments gentlemen. Pieter
On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 19:12, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > Like > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:00 AM Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: > >> Oh, forgot to clearly identify the irony: ;-) >> >> Doing diligence on this crap is way exhausting. I am entirely in >> sympathy with your dilemma. >> >> Even if ivermectin does nothing useful, it still may be a useful >> treatment in situations where no other treatment is available. And >> fabricating evidence of its efficacy would also be a comfort to the >> patients and the medical staff in that situation. A placebo can be better >> than nothing, a placebo with a bogus story behind it can be even better. >> >> -- rec -- >> >> -- rec -- >> >> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 12:37 PM Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: >> >>> Pieter -- >>> >>> I looked over the links you listed. >>> >>> They seem to claim that withdrawl of ivermectin caused the spike in >>> Covid cases in India, and also that administering ivermectin caused the end >>> of the spike in Covid cases. Both of these claims are sort of hard to >>> evaluate, since I don't see any evidence that anyone has ever distributed >>> ivermectin/doxycycline/zinc kits very widely, either before or after the >>> spike in infections. Constructing and delivering kits for 1.366 billion >>> people would have been quite an achievement for any economy. >>> >>> I followed the links to https://c19ivermectin.com/ and found the list >>> of ivermectin studies. The list presented currently claims 110 studies, 68 >>> peer reviewed, 64 involving control and treatment groups, but it's puffed >>> up with another 50 entries which are news clippings, press releases, >>> meta-analyses, reviews, and other miscellanea. >>> >>> I looked an early review article, >>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z.pdf, though the pdf >>> is hosted at nature.com, it's from a different journal. >>> >>> The Journal of Antibiotics (2020) 73:593–602 >>>> https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z >>>> Ivermectin: a systematic review from antiviral effects to COVID-19 >>>> complementary regimen Fatemeh Heidary1 ● Reza Gharebaghi2,3 >>>> 1 Head of Ophthalmology Division, Taleghani Hospital, Ahvaz Jundishapur >>>> University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Iran >>>> 2 Kish International Campus, University of Tehran, Tehran, Iran >>>> 3 International Virtual Ophthalmic Research Center (IVORC), Austin, TX, >>>> USA >>>> Abstract >>>> Ivermectin proposes many potentials effects to treat a range of >>>> diseases, with its antimicrobial, antiviral, and anti-cancer properties as >>>> a wonder drug. It is highly effective against many microorganisms including >>>> some viruses. In this comprehensive systematic review, antiviral effects of >>>> ivermectin are summarized including in vitro and in vivo studies over the >>>> past 50 years. Several studies reported antiviral effects of ivermectin on >>>> RNA viruses such as Zika, dengue, yellow fever, West Nile, Hendra, >>>> Newcastle, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, chikungunya, Semliki Forest, >>>> Sindbis, Avian influenza A, Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, >>>> Human immunodeficiency virus type 1, and severe acute respiratory syndrome >>>> coronavirus 2. Furthermore, there are some studies showing antiviral >>>> effects of ivermectin against DNA viruses such as Equine herpes type 1, BK >>>> polyomavirus, pseudorabies, porcine circovirus 2, and bovine herpesvirus 1. >>>> Ivermmust beectin plays a role in several biological mechanisms, therefore >>>> it could serve as a potential candidate in the treatment of a wide range of >>>> viruses including COVID-19 as well as other types of positive-sense >>>> single-stranded RNA viruses. In vivo studies of animal models revealed a >>>> broad range of antiviral effects of ivermectin, however, clinical trials >>>> are necessary to appraise the potential efficacy of ivermectin in clinical >>>> setting >>>> >>> >>> The quick read is that ivermectin interferes with viral reproduction *in >>> vitro*, but fails to work *in vivo*, for all of these viruses. It's >>> been tried against every virus that's turned up in the last 50 years, had >>> some *in vitro* anti-viral activity, but never became an approved >>> treatment for any of them. >>> >>> It must be that the elites are consipring. That's the only reasonable >>> explanation for the facts. >>> >>> -- rec -- >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 2:28 AM Pieter Steenekamp < >>> piet...@randcontrols.co.za> wrote: >>> >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> Thanks for pointing out that my message is not very clear. Let me >>>> rewrite it with a change in wording, I hope it's better this time. >>>> >>>> I believe that the study that Marcus referred to above , >>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid >>>> , >>>> is most probably correct. >>>> >>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol, >>>> there are no benefits against covid in using ivermectin. Does that mean >>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that >>>> do give benefits? >>>> >>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some >>>> (see references below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in >>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone have >>>> better information? I'd like to know. >>>> >>>> References: >>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/ >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/ >>>> >>>> Pieter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 23:13, <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Pieter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Did you perhaps leave out a link? Which study? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nick Thompson >>>>> >>>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Pieter >>>>> Steenekamp >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 12:09 PM >>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] ivermectin, nope >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I believe this study is most probably correct. >>>>> >>>>> Help me if I'm wrong. It proves that according to a specific protocol, >>>>> there are no benefits against covid in using ivermectin. Does that mean >>>>> that there are no other prophylaxis protocols that include ivermectin that >>>>> do give benefits? >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to make sense of what's happening in India. According to some >>>>> (see reference below), the use of ivermectin is effective against covid in >>>>> India. I really don't know how reliable these sources are. Does anyone >>>>> have >>>>> better information? I'd like to know. >>>>> >>>>> References: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/ >>>>> >>>>> https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-208785/v1/d6ff79a3-d354-4aba-a6b0-4bc123bbd225.pdf >>>>> >>>>> https://stuartbramhall.wordpress.com/2021/04/29/when-india-stopped-prescribing-ivermectin-and-started-vaccinating-deaths-shot-up/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://nonvenipacem.com/2021/07/31/india-crushed-covid-using-ivermectin-and-you-can-too/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/elites-worried-covid-cases-india-plummet-government-promotes-ivermectin-hydroxychloroquine-use/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pieter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 17:34, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid >>>>> >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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