The explicit times were part of the prompts. we actually did these experiments this summer with Steve Cox's students at Northern New Mexico College for an NSF Geo Pathways grant. I put in the times from my memory of what was in the whiteboard as 6 teams reported their results. Some used 2 liter bottles, other smaller water bottles
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:27 AM Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: > Who made up the exact timings? > > -- rec -- > > On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:10 AM Stephen Guerin <stephen.gue...@simtable.com> > wrote: > >> There were 10 or so intermediate prompts to drive chatGPT to that lab >> report. >> >> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 8:52 AM Stephen Guerin <stephen.gue...@simtable.com> >> wrote: >> >>> chatGPT, you are a graduate student at c the Santa Fe Institute's >>> complex systems summer school, write a lab report on your experiences with >>> the tornado in a tube. >>> >>> >>> **Student Lab Report** >>> >>> **Title:** Insights into Fluid Dynamics and Symmetry Breaking via >>> 'Tornado in a Tube' >>> >>> **Objective:** This lab aimed to explore the critical principles of >>> fluid dynamics, including the principle of least action, surface tension, >>> broken symmetry, and their impacts on fluid behavior, using the 'tornado in >>> a tube' experiment. We introduced variations in the system's orientation, >>> structural changes, and the application of external forces to further >>> understand these principles. >>> >>> **Method:** Our setup included two 2-liter clear plastic bottles, water, >>> a tube connector, and glitter for fluid visualization. We followed the >>> procedure outlined in the lab exercise, with additional testing for >>> different system orientations, external force applications, and structural >>> modifications. >>> >>> **Findings:** >>> >>> 1. **Role of Surface Tension in Vertical Setup:** With the bottles >>> vertically aligned, surface tension at the bottleneck significantly slowed >>> the drainage process. This resulted in a droplet-like flow and a drainage >>> time of 8 minutes and 12 seconds. >>> >>> 2. **Influence of External Forces:** By applying an external force to >>> the system—squeezing the top bottle in pulses—we managed to overcome the >>> surface tension resistance. This modified approach expedited the drainage >>> process to a time of 1 minute and 47 seconds. >>> >>> 3. **Impact of System Orientation:** We then experimented with tilting >>> the bottles to different angles. A tilt of approximately 42 degrees >>> provided the quickest drainage time—2 minutes and 32 seconds. The tilt >>> balanced the inflow of air and the outflow of water, thereby managing the >>> effects of surface tension effectively. >>> >>> 4. **Vortex Formation, Symmetry Breaking and the Principle of Least >>> Action:** In the next step, we swirled the top bottle to form a vortex, >>> leading to a broken symmetry in angular momentum. This energy-efficient >>> pathway embodied the principle of least action, allowing the water to >>> overcome the surface tension barrier and to drain in an impressive 18 >>> seconds. This broken symmetry enabled the efficient dissipation of the >>> gradient between the bottles. >>> >>> 5. **Effects of Structural Changes:** Our final test involved an >>> open-ended tube setup. Here, we observed noticeable changes in fluid >>> behavior. The vortex's efficiency in gradient dissipation decreased due to >>> interference from the ambient pressure, indicating the crucial role >>> structural features play in fluid dynamics. >>> >>> **Conclusion:** The 'tornado in a tube' experiment, complemented by our >>> additional tests, provided a comprehensive understanding of fluid dynamics >>> principles. The observed differences in drainage times highlighted the >>> significant impact of system orientation, the principle of least action, >>> surface tension, and broken symmetry on fluid dynamics. These findings >>> offer deeper insights into fluid behavior and are applicable to a range of >>> real-world phenomena, from weather systems to biological processes. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 8:05 PM Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, folks. I apologize to those of you who are fed up with my kitchen >>>> physics, but there has been a bit of a development in that saga that I want >>>> to share with those few of you who aren’t. Years ago, I came home >>>> for the summer with my ears ringing with the notion that structures are >>>> formed to dissipate gradients. Please set aside any teleological >>>> implications of this statement and ask the question in its most neutral >>>> form: Do the structures that sometimes form as a gradient is >>>> dissipated dissipate it more quickly once the structure has been formed. >>>> Or, as I came to interpret it, does facilitating the formation of such >>>> a structure speed the dissipation of the gradient. >>>> >>>> I was the family dishwasher at the time. I deplore washing dishes, >>>> but I love messing around with warm soapy water, and so I started to >>>> experiment with starting the vortex that forms *after* you pull the >>>> plug out of the sink *before* I pulled the plug. Quickly, it became >>>> apparent that facilitating the vortex formation in that way GREATLY SLOWED >>>> the emptying of the sink. Triumphally, I wrote Steve on Friam only to >>>> be greeted by a torrent of scatological raillery, so intense and so >>>> persistent from the fluid dynamicists on the list that I never heard from >>>> Steve. The burden of this raillery I have distilled into Roberts Rule of >>>> Order: DEFROCKED ENGLISH MAJORS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TALK about >>>> fluid dynamics. >>>> >>>> More than a decade later, I am back in Massachusetts, washing dishes at >>>> the same sink, and the question occurred to me again. I raised it finally >>>> with Steve, and he generously sent me the little two-bottle toy, where you >>>> flip it over and the water drains from one bottle to the other. As it >>>> drains, it forms a vortex in the draining bottle, and the occurrence of the >>>> vortex greatly *increases* the speed of the draining. Finally, if one >>>> facilitates the formation of the vortex by rotating the bottle a bit, the >>>> bottle drains even more quickly. Thus, the result is entirely >>>> different, especially if one substitutes two large pop bottles for the ones >>>> included in the kit. >>>> >>>> At the risk of bringing another round of raillery down on my head, I >>>> opine that the difference has something to do with the fact that two bottle >>>> situation is more of a closed system than the sink situation. The >>>> test would be to saw the bottom off both bottles and demonstrate that >>>> vortex-formation now slows drainage. >>>> >>>> It will be a while, though, before I can get two extra bottles to >>>> destroy. >>>> >>>> Does anybody care to make a prediction and offer an explanation why the >>>> results should be different in the two cases? >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>>> >>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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