There will be a fate vs. the fate is knowable. Not sure why people bring that distinction up as interesting.
Shakespeare? * when I first (age 12-16?) encountered Xtian whack jobs who confronted *MY* illusion of /free will/ with *THEIR* illusion of /God-figure-given predetermination/ , an ill-formed version of the question began. * Godel and Turing added a nice formalism into my budding sense of "all things computational" over the next 5-10 years. * Complexity Science put it into a more interesting (and complex) frame for me over the next 10 years... * The current wave of ML/AI has retriggered it for me. But we know I'm an easy mark. * Quantum theoretic and particularly computational framings, as well as Digital Physics (ala Fredkin/Wolfram/et-al) give it a whole new spiciness.I'm off to do my twice-weekly water-walking meditation, perhaps such will help me recognize that all above are in fact un-interesting.
*From:*Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *steve smith *Sent:* Thursday, May 29, 2025 8:13 AM *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The entropy of thought < The interesting question is where exactly does the deterministic system turn into something nondeterministic, and how?> It doesn’t. A deterministic system is a deterministic system.who might have first made the distinction : "deterministic but not pre-stateable"?George offered: *Year* *Thinker* *Conceptual Expression* 1931 Kurt Gödel Incompleteness: truths not derivable 1936 Alan Turing Halting problem: uncomputable predictions 1970s Heinz von Foerster Second-order cybernetics: unknowability of future 1991 Robert Rosen Closure to efficient causation; entailment limits 1993 Stuart Kauffman Adjacent possible; unprestatable evolution 2005 Gregory Chaitin Incompressible but defined numbers (e.g., Ω) .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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