And it all makes perfect sense provided the measurer is also deterministic.
From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Pieter Steenekamp Sent: Monday, June 9, 2025 11:44 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Free will—ghost in the machine or just clever wiring? I'll let George answer: EPR refers to the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox, a 1935 thought experiment by Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen. It challenges the completeness of quantum mechanics by showing that, under its rules, two particles can become entangled—so that measuring one instantly affects the other, no matter how far apart they are. Einstein called this "spooky action at a distance" and believed it implied quantum mechanics was incomplete, suggesting the existence of hidden variables that would restore locality and determinism. EPR is foundational to debates about quantum nonlocality and played a key role in later developments like Bell's theorem and quantum information theory. On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 at 20:29, Frank Wimberly <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: What is "EPR"? What is the attraction to acronyms about? --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Jun 8, 2025, 11:38 PM Pieter Steenekamp <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Seth Lloyd’s Turing test for free will (https://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/lloyd/Turing_Test.pdf) is to consciousness what EPR was to quantum physics: a challenge to the theory's completeness. EPR said quantum weirdness must hide something deeper; Bell said “let's test that”—and nature replied, “nope, it’s weird all the way down.” Nobel Prize, case closed. Lloyd asks: can we prove the mind is just machinery? His test says: build a machine that behaves indistinguishably from a human and believes it has free will. If you succeed—great. But failure proves nothing. Unlike Bell’s inequality, this test can only confirm, never deny. No ghost-busting here. Until then? It’s speculation. The Standard Model explains almost everything—except the quantum gremlins and how observation messes things up. So maybe the mind still has an ace up its sleeve. Or a soul. Or a bug in the code. .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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