No, you are wrong. Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the legal ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant.
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41 <sec...@gmail.com> wrote: > indeed :) > but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i once > did... > anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof, > unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very > rare but funnily, possible. > webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it, if > the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story. > > > > > On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji <m...@b3nji.com> wrote: > >> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different. >> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41 <sec...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that >>> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i >>> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid >>> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company, i >>> was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could do >>> the same 'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away. >>> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not hard >>> to move a user around boxes :P >>> and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is >>> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company >>> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit apparently* >>> companies...and they do it using those simple means, and, even show logs of >>> them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad user' , this is, a >>> whole different level than even needing to deal with cops.. so, you are >>> scared too much by laws wich can be smokescreened. >>> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany >>> users they actually rm ;) >>> you would want this service, on your vps ? >>> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon, >>> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my >>> darn data secure ey ? >>> how about that ? >>> simple methods, defeat simple plans benji. >>> xd >>> >>> >>> >>> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji <m...@b3nji.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are >>>> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your >>>> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this >>>> idea >>>> that they can't. >>>> >>>> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so >>>> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country >>>> to >>>> do this is either stupid or naive. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41 <sec...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'. >>>>> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is >>>>> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider >>>>> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers, >>>>> should not be handed over. >>>>> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not >>>>> take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there >>>>> is >>>>> many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it. >>>>> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should >>>>> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and >>>>> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now. >>>>> anyhow, cheers, >>>>> xd >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji <m...@b3nji.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK >>>>>> business and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn < >>>>>> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Again, I hope this does not fail to send. >>>>>>> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to >>>>>>> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some >>>>>>> talented >>>>>>> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more >>>>>>> interesting >>>>>>> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and >>>>>>> coders and >>>>>>> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> were but pawns to be used (IMHO). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing >>>>>>> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all >>>>>>> there is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go >>>>>>> assuming that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc). >>>>>>> Good day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm < >>>>>>> laure...@oneechan.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers >>>>>>>> might give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> and better. >>>>>>>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD" <doo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle >>>>>>>> pissed and >>>>>>>> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time... >>>>>>>> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and >>>>>>>> hopefully it >>>>>>>> > is just, cool. >>>>>>>> > :) >>>>>>>> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp >>>>>>>> > take care , >>>>>>>> > xd >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm <laure...@oneechan.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p >>>>>>>> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD" <doo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> > Hello Laurelai , >>>>>>>> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont >>>>>>>> even know >>>>>>>> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore... >>>>>>>> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela. >>>>>>>> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not >>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and >>>>>>>> privacy, in my >>>>>>>> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it. >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a >>>>>>>> huge >>>>>>>> >> torrent >>>>>>>> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but >>>>>>>> by the >>>>>>>> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely. >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' >>>>>>>> and what >>>>>>>> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all. >>>>>>>> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing >>>>>>>> places like >>>>>>>> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to >>>>>>>> politics, whom >>>>>>>> >> in >>>>>>>> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i >>>>>>>> think this >>>>>>>> >> is >>>>>>>> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever >>>>>>>> was apart >>>>>>>> >> of >>>>>>>> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs. >>>>>>>> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but >>>>>>>> not alone >>>>>>>> >> by >>>>>>>> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout >>>>>>>> now..and, that >>>>>>>> >> is >>>>>>>> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module >>>>>>>> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without >>>>>>>> realising, >>>>>>>> >> asked >>>>>>>> >> > a friend, to code for them. >>>>>>>> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> >> now. >>>>>>>> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to >>>>>>>> it :s look >>>>>>>> >> at >>>>>>>> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced >>>>>>>> drinemon and a >>>>>>>> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked >>>>>>>> out with >>>>>>>> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this >>>>>>>> is mutual >>>>>>>> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, >>>>>>>> expect the >>>>>>>> >> same. >>>>>>>> >> > Respect for respect dear. >>>>>>>> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> >> holding >>>>>>>> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> >> idiotic >>>>>>>> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i >>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>> >> that, >>>>>>>> >> > to be laid rest now.. please. >>>>>>>> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will >>>>>>>> prevail and >>>>>>>> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some >>>>>>>> way, wether >>>>>>>> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of >>>>>>>> peoples >>>>>>>> >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard >>>>>>>> for VPN, I >>>>>>>> >> do >>>>>>>> >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly >>>>>>>> >> that,without >>>>>>>> >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now >>>>>>>> legal and >>>>>>>> >> not >>>>>>>> >> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites. >>>>>>>> >> > ok, thats plenty, cheers! >>>>>>>> >> > xd >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai <laure...@oneechan.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy >>>>>>>> hma. >>>>>>>> >> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs" <tyr...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;) >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD < >>>>>>>> doo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P >>>>>>>> >> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel >>>>>>>> thing... why >>>>>>>> >> do >>>>>>>> >> >> ppl >>>>>>>> >> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not... >>>>>>>> >> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks) >>>>>>>> >> >> >> xd >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn >>>>>>>> >> >> >> <d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But >>>>>>>> seeing as >>>>>>>> >> it >>>>>>>> >> >> is >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been >>>>>>>> bending over >>>>>>>> >> >> backwards >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the >>>>>>>> VPN's of >>>>>>>> >> choice >>>>>>>> >> >> for >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the >>>>>>>> #pure-elite channel >>>>>>>> >> on >>>>>>>> >> >> that >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as >>>>>>>> "Part of >>>>>>>> >> >> LulzSec". >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm < >>>>>>>> >> laure...@oneechan.org >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton" < >>>>>>>> noloa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan . < >>>>>>>> ivan...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it >>>>>>>> looks as >>>>>>>> >> if >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and >>>>>>>> the FBI >>>>>>>> >> have >>>>>>>> >> >> no >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > jurisdiction in the UK. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > Jeff >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> >> Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > -- >>>>>>>> >> >> > Ferenc Kovács >>>>>>>> >> >> > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu >>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> > Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >From my understanding they used the channel as a possible >>>>>>>> recruitment >>>>>>>> >> >> ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of lulzsec >>>>>>>> , i find >>>>>>>> >> it >>>>>>>> >> >> disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc >>>>>>>> channel >>>>>>>> >> tantamount >>>>>>>> >> >> to being a part of lulzsec. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> >> >> Charter: >>>>>>>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
