Steven Brown wrote: > Hi Darby, > > I know that the Australian BPAY system when I implemented it a few years ago > required generation of order numbers with a check digit attached. There were > several algorithms to choose from but ofcourse the Luhn is not a bad option. > > I am also currently working on a system where customer numbers and affiliate > IDs are generated and check digits will be a nice simple addition to ensure > people enter these correctly.
Yes, I understand how having the Luhn algorithm available separately could prove useful in such scenarios. > Verhoeff is just an alternative to Luhn in these examples. Any accounts > system could benefit from check digits for account numbers, invoice numbers, > product numbers etc. Makes sense, thanks for elaborating a bit. :) > My point generally with these algorithms and the card type detection is that > while the Validate classes are certainly valuable, a Validate class is > probably not technically the correct place for these "utilities" to exist. Why not? I think we may be entering the realm of semantics. What "utility" does the Luhn algorithm provide beyond "validating" that the input follows the algorithm's requirements? Put another way, how do you envision the API of what you're suggesting, and how does it not match with Zend_Validate_Interface? Of course, any validation class can implement *more* than the interface demands, but I'm interested in understanding other differences. > Perhaps a Zend_Util_Luhn or Zend_Math_Luhn or other grouping name might > allow not only these but many other utilities to exist without needing a > specific application, instead specific applications (such as Validate) can > be built to use these classes. Actually, I don't yet see why such classes (Luhn/Verhoeff) should not live in Zend_Validate "namespace", but I can certainly imagine "utility" classes of other types that would not blend in so well and would warrant their own "namespace". > I know there is a discussion at the moment regarding ZF packaging that may > be along a similar line to what I am talking about. Yes, I also think there is some relation here. If you want to realize your complete vision for these things, I would encourage you to write a proposal that details your suggestions, particularly with exploration of the use cases for which the changes and additions are necessary for you. See the "Submit a new proposal" link on the proposals home page: http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFPROP/Home Thanks again! Best regards, Darby > > Cheers, > Steven > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darby Felton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2008 1:12 AM > To: Steven Brown > Cc: 'Zend Framework General' > Subject: Re: [fw-general] Addition of utility classes to ZF > > Hi Steven, > > Steven Brown wrote: >> Hi Darby, >> >> The Zend_Validate_Ccnum is only one application of the Luhn algorithm, I >> would have thought the Luhn class would be separate from the Validate > class? > > I suppose it could be separated easily enough. In fact, the Ccnum > validator does barely more than ensuring the Luhn algorithm is followed > for the digits of the input (it ensures the number of digits is between > 13 and 19, no big deal). Probably the Ccnum validator would simply make > use of the new Luhn validator. > >> There is an application to generate check digits for account numbers etc. >> The same applies to Verhoeff, validation is not the only purpose. > > For what application(s) are you wishing to use a separate Luhn > validator, I'm curious? For account numbers? What kinds of accounts? > > In any case, you can file a JIRA issue for this and, if you're willing, > make these contributions yourself (of course I am happy to help!): > > http://framework.zend.com/issues/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa > > http://framework.zend.com/community/contribute/ > > By validation I simply mean that: > > * input is checked against some criteria > > * the validator returns a boolean, whether or not the input satisfy the > criteria > > * the validator also provides the reason(s) for validation failure, > should the input not satisfy the criteria > > How might your use case differ from this? > >> On the note of the Zend_Validate_Ccnum class, what if we wanted to >> automatically detect what credit card was being used (based on >> numbers/length)? While Zend_Validate_Ccnum would be good for ensuring a > card >> is a particular type (and that the check digit is correct) is this the > place >> for code to figure out what the card type is? > > I don't know of a better place offhand, but I'm open to suggestions. I > can imagine that the Ccnum validator could recognize what type of card > was being used and provide this information separately. For example: > > $ccnumValidator = new Zend_Validate_Ccnum(); > if (!$ccnumValidator->isValid($ccnum)) { > // validation failed; see $ccnumValidator->getMessages() > } else { > // validation passed; get the card brand > echo $ccnumValidator->getCardBrand(); // prints "VISA" or something > } > >> Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else but it seems to me that there is >> need for a utility class area to feed things like validation, but also be >> used elsewhere. > > I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting. What utilities do you think > we need to add and where? > > Thanks! > > Best regards, > Darby > >> Cheers, >> Steven >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Darby Felton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 11:24 PM >> To: Steven Brown >> Cc: 'Zend Framework General' >> Subject: Re: [fw-general] Addition of utility classes to ZF >> >> Hi Steven, >> >> We have an implementation of the Luhn algorithm within >> Zend_Validate_Ccnum, though I'm pretty sure we have not implemented the >> Verhoeff algorithm anywhere. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.) >> >> I think that such validation may fit nicely into the Zend_Validate >> "namespace", but if you are interested in contributing this and other >> utilities to Zend Framework, please see: >> >> http://framework.zend.com/community/contribute >> >> for more information. Probably it would be good to describe the >> utilities and getting some more feedback before making any judgment >> about whether they would be worth including. :) >> >> There is also a proposal process for making ZF contributions: >> >> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFPROP/Home >> >> Thank you for your interest in contributing to Zend Framework! :) >> >> Best regards, >> Darby >> >> Steven Brown wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I was just about to create some utility classes for Luhn (MOD10) and >>> Verhoeff check digit generation and checking. Is this the kind of thing >> that >>> might fit into ZF somewhere and if so where? >>> >>> There are a whole heap of utility classes I use outside of ZF that are >>> sometimes incompatible or not in the coding standard of ZF, is there much >>> point in converting these and contributing them to ZF? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Steven >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >
