2009/10/31 Pádraic Brady <padraic.br...@yahoo.com>: > I think Matthew is pointing out that there have always been doubts about > utilising a DI container in light weight languages like PHP, Python, and > Ruby. In essence, it's remarkably hard to create a valid use case for a DI > container. You can create any number of artificial examples, but the light > weightedness of PHP, it's tolerance for loose coupling, and the minimal code > it generates (all reasons why we use it) make using DI overkill - probably > in 95% or more of the common uses for PHP. > > There are some interesting case studies in Ruby if you go looking where > individuals have experiemented in writing a DI container/framework for Ruby. > Ruby has several Di containers/frameworks - nearly all them are classified > as dormant. Ruby has one very neat thing over PHP - you can overload object > instantiation. > > This is not to say a DI container is useless or meaningless, but the > classical concept of a DI container from Java or C# is only marginally > useful in PHP. In most respects all you really need is a little substitution > and light mapping. If that's the goal of any future DI work in ZF, then > please, fire on all cylinders. Whether that would qualify as a DI container > or not is anyone's guess ;). Once you start accumulating more features, more > complex mapping, and more classical injection methods - then it will bury > itself into oblivion as an overarchitected mess 99% of PHP developers just > do not need.
Thanks for the informative debate, I suppose it breaks down to how much you use something like a DI Container in an application, like most things in life :) Most of the testability problems can be overcome by using manual injection / lazy injection and things like the universal construct anyway.... Sorry to keep this thread going for so long I went a bit off topic :) > > My 2c :) > > Paddy > > Pádraic Brady > > http://blog.astrumfutura.com > http://www.survivethedeepend.com > OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative > > > ________________________________ > From: keith Pope <mute.p...@googlemail.com> > To: fw-general@lists.zend.com > Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 7:19:25 PM > Subject: Re: [fw-general] Discontinuing Zend Entity in favour of Doctrine > integration > > 2009/10/30 Matthew Weier O'Phinney <matt...@zend.com>: >> -- keith Pope <mute.p...@googlemail.com> wrote >> (on Friday, 30 October 2009, 04:43 PM +0000): >>> 2009/10/30 Matthew Weier O'Phinney <matt...@zend.com>: >>> > -- keith Pope <mute.p...@googlemail.com> wrote >>> > (on Friday, 30 October 2009, 04:02 PM +0000): >>> > > 2009/10/30 Ralph Schindler <ralph.schind...@zend.com> : >>> > > Also will we be deprecating Zend_Db as if we have tight Doctrine >>> > > integration is there any reason to keep Zend_Db? >>> > >>> > There are plenty of reasons to keep Zend_Db. Not everyone will be using >>> > Doctrine, and for many one-off types of applications (single tables, or >>> > multiple tables with no relations, etc.), having Zend_Db around will >>> > continue to be essential. Additionally, one aspect I'd like to explore >>> > with the Doctrine folks is potentially allowing Zend_Db adapters as >>> > Doctrine RDBMS adapters; this would provide some very interesting >>> > integration points. >>> >>> Sounds interesting I look forward to seeing this initiative develop >>> further, I would be happy to help in any way I can :) >>> >>> Once we have the integration especially with doctrine 2 would there be >>> any further plans to look at things like dependency injection, >>> criteria objects and repositories or any other DDD tools? To me having >>> a full suite of tools like this would be a great long term goal? >> >> DI is something we're already planning for -- you'll note the "unified >> constructor" pattern in all new components. Whether or not we'll have a >> DI _container_ is another question; I'm not entirely convinced DI >> containers have a good place in stateless applications, but I'll let >> Ralph talk more to that point. :) > > That is an interesting point, I dont quite understand how state > affects object dependencies or is the container an unnecessary > overhead when you are working in a limited state environment? > Something I may have to ponder.... > >> >> As for criteria objects, we've just approved another of Ben's >> components, some extensions to Zend_Db_Expr. One aspect I particularly >> like with it is that, combined with Zend_Db_Select, we are getting to a >> point where we have an almost complete criteria object for select >> operations. This could certainly be adapted for use with DDD fairly >> easily. Regarding repositories, Zend_Application_Bootstrap actually >> already acts as one in many ways -- though we may do more with this >> and/or service locators for 2.0. >> >> -- >> Matthew Weier O'Phinney >> Project Lead | matt...@zend.com >> Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/ >> > > > > -- > ------------ > http://www.thepopeisdead.com > -- ------------ http://www.thepopeisdead.com
