At 10:16 PM -0800 12/27/08, w_tom wrote: >On Dec 27, 10:55 pm, Bill Christensen <billc_li...@greenbuilder.com> >wrote: >> Finally I decided that the prime difference was the power. They were >> unprotected. We've got a big UPS (sine wave output, not square >> wave). We're all way out at the end of the power system, and the >> power is definitely prone to spikes and surges. Our UPS beeps and >> boops frequently telling us of slumps and surges. >> We put them on a UPS and the problems went away. Same machine, same >> use patterns. > > Let's add some facts.
Sorry, but some of your "facts" are also assumptions. Not least of which is your implied suggestion (via the URL you posted) that a computer reacts in a similar way to power supply disruption as a sewing machine motor. It appears to me that the APC tech who responded was pretty much on the money - a BackUPS unit is insufficient for the application discussed. >First you had no idea why the supply was >failing. Using anecdotal evidence, you were speculating. From >diagnostic programs, where was a fact that identified what hardware >was defective? I never said anything about defective hardware. I said I ran "one of the diagnostic/repair tools on it, fix a bunch of stuff". By that I was referring to SOFTWARE diagnostics and SOFTWARE fixes - Disk First Aid, Disk Warrior, Norton, whatever the heck we were using most at the time. Nothing changed in the hardware set up at all. And I don't give a rat's patoot as to why the power company delivered crappy power. I've seen the lights dim or momentarily go out often enough to know that it does. >Second, anything that a $500 UPS (to create sine waves) would solve >is supposed to be inside a $60 power supply. So you spent $500 on a >UPS to fix a defective power supply? That is proof? Of what? You >somehow _know_ 'dirty' power can corrupt any computer? And that >corruption means hardware was damaged? Actually, our UPS is in the $1800 range. It is primarily used as battery backup for some of our servers. The one they got was in the $75 range if I recall, giving them 5-10 min shutdown time in the event of a full power outage, and covering their behinds for the frequent times the power dips or goes out only momentarily. It may not have fixed any hardware, but the software side of things was sure a lot happier. Perhaps the power supply was a piece of junk as you suggest and was not properly delivering 'clean' power. But one detail that I left out is that the reason we gave them my wife's computer in the first place was because on top of it being faster than their previous beast, their old machine had similar problems. We figured that by providing them with a known good machine they'd be out of the woods. But the known good machine began displaying similar symptoms as soon as it was in their hands. So either two macs in succession had "bad" power supplies that couldn't handle what the power company fed them or the UPS actually did clean up the power enough to make the difference. >You have posted speculation. Then you converted >that speculation into a conclusion. IOW junk science. Call it whatever you'd like. Though I didn't go down there with a meter and check their incoming power over a period of time, correlate it to the condition of their software and technically prove that dirty power conclusively caused them problems, I didn't have to. My goal was to eliminate the symptoms - which I did, while also giving them a small period of battery backup. > But to fix a $60 defective computer power supply >with a $500 UPS - that is not worthwhile. True. But fixing a $60 defective computer power supply (or whatever the actual cause was) AND giving them battery backup that they really needed anyway for at total of $75 is worthwhile. > Anne Keller-Smith recommends using a UPS to protect hardware. Read it again. She put plenty of qualifications in there. "YMMV". "I heard that..." -- Bill Christensen <http://greenbuilder.com/contact/> Green Building Professionals Directory: <http://directory.greenbuilder.com> Sustainable Building Calendar: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/> Green Real Estate: <http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/> Straw Bale Registry: <http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/> Books/videos/software: <http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
