In my opinion, it's kind of a bs response to say that screen readers make audiogames. Urban dead uses only the screen reader to give info. It's not an audiogame. It's a game played with a screen reader. I mean, I just don't understand why it's so important to call them audiogames, even though you use a screen reader to play them. You use your screen reader to use Windows, but it's not an audio operating system. I've basically lost the debate, mostly because there was literally no chance to change things in this reguard, and I do think that our developers should get their games out there in a wider range of gamer venues. I just think a line should be drawn. If the primary mechanic for playing a game is audio, that game should be called an audiogame. Let me be more specific: If most of the game's interface is self-generated audio, that game is an audiogame, not a videogame. If most of the game's interface is textual, that game is a textual game. If most of the game's interface is visual, that game is a videogame. Just because a game can make use of a screen reader, which produces audio, it isn't an audiogame. You could play the same game with a braille display, which would make it a tactile game. Audiogames.net could change. Maybe a mission statement written a decade ago is no longer appropriate and no longer serves us in this different day and age. Ten years may not seem all that long to some of us, but ten years has seen developments like the iPhone, Android, similar smartphone platforms which have radically changed our perceptions on gaming. It has seen the advent of Steam and Origin, immense game libraries available to the sighted world and unavailable to us in any form. It has seen the development of enormously powerful gaming consoles and computers which put anything we had ten years ago to shame. Maybe, just maybe, since the sighted world is interested more in game audio than ever before, we should be interested in giving themcredit where credit is due and helping them continue to develop. The problem we've found is that we want a current game to be accessible. "Why can't I play the sims!" The answer is to make future games accessible. Maybe a few big companies wouldn't try because we give them credit for some accessibility innately included in the game, but maybe they would find a way to incorporate that into their operating procedure. In my opinion, it's hypocritical to defend putting a text adventure on a game audio site because the developer has chosen to support screen readers, but to avidly deny putting up a major game, even though there are accessible features in an inaccessible game, which are audio based.
I wish, sincerely, that I was invited to talk, with the support of an organization or group, to these developers, because I am sorely saddened by the way they are often approached by our community. This is outside the current topic in this thread, which is outside the original idea of the thread, but it's something that I feel compelled to say. We ask that a game title we see on shelves be expanded to include accessibility, in most cases. In none of those cases will we be granted our request, by any developer. Devs, keep in mind adding in an enormous change to interface on a whim. It isn't going to happen. Then, let's consider what I've read we are asking for... what are we asking for! We're not approaching the developers in a way that would make them interested. We're not providing them ways to make sighted people go "Hey neat" while we go "We can now play too." Audiogames.net was originally conceived in an age where audyssey.org was kind of not doing much of anything but hosting an email list. There wasn't a complete collection of gaming links for the blind. There wasn't a single forum site for discussion of those games, and frankly this list is enormously high-traffic because it's an email list, not a forum, and people are not usually on here because it's so populated. Now, audyssey.org is trying to get started again. PCSGames.com has an enormous list of games. the list goes on. We could change. I just don't think we will. For my final word, I think that the drop down box isn't just easier to use for folks with screen readers. What person is going to go to a site, looking for audiogames, and instead of looking through the big, in your face list, say "I think I'll search the site for audiogames for only games with audio." The point is kind of silly, although I understand that it's a sore spot due to the questions of those who would rather ask on list than try using the tools they are given. The list is right there. Everyone and anyone is going to use it. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 4/20/13, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: > Hi Decota. > > Firstly, remember that the dropdown box on audiogames.net is not the be all > > and end all of site searching, and also that the disclaimer statement at the > > top of the site clearly states access as a primary motivation. Both of these > > were set by Richard and sander 10 years ago when the site began, and while > it is true I cannot change them, it is equally true that I think people do > forget the extra functions of the site simply because they just! use that > dropdown. i don't blame people for this, for a screen reader user it makes > sense, but the same is not true of everyone, and the amount of ties I get > asked something like "are there any statratogy games available" when all a > person has to do is search the archive with the right filter is > unbelieveable. > > As regards mainstream games such as mass effect 2, while I have no problem > people discussing these in the forum, I do not want to make them a primary > feature of the site for two principle reasons. > > firstly is the access reason which I explain in the db guidelines, namely > that if a game is only playable with considderable amounts of work, it is > not accessible since the effort involved is not equalized. After all, a > person could in theory play any sighted game by just learning the right > combination of key presses if they took a long enough time, but this does > not mean all games are accessible since such a procedure would be > ridiculous. > > the second point, is that we are trying to get mainstream developers > interested in audio game developement. If however we say "oh, but blind > people can play mass effect 2" the response is likely to be "oh, well we've > > already done game access s so we don't need to do anything!" > > this has certainly happened before, if a company can make lip service and a > > getout to something they will, and the last thing we want is the next > beatemup with textual menues being promoted as "an accessible game to the > blind" because some people have played beatemups without sound in the past > by learning menues, reading faqs etc. > > Finally, as I said earlier, I do not believe myself that the separation of > audio games from text adventures is quite that simple. Would you say for > instance that the games from 7-128 are not true audio games because they use > > sapi? or lone wolf? and if a game with sapi and sound effects counts, why > not something like smugglers, which has after all recieved massive updates. > > As an interesting fact, I have actually on several occasions played > gamebooks and if games with a friend of mine who is a huge fan of the genre, > > (he has read me printed gamebooks in the past). These plays are cooperative, > > I read with supernova, we both make decisions. We are both listening to the > > audio (my friend says he finds it easier than reading the screen), so is > this not an audio game? > > while I do appreciate your points decota, I just think your separation of > catagories is not really workable enough, ---- and this from the perspective > > of someone who has written up entries and played games with any amount of > background audio or none. > > Myself, i think the way forward isn't to alter audiogames.net or our > purpose, but to go out into the indi developement community and spread news > > about audio games elsewhere, so that just as indexes that list graphical > games could also list audio ones. > > this already happens with games like core exiles and puppet nightmares > listed on brouser indexes, but what we need is for people like Gma to be > listed elsehwere too, so that people will see games like shades not as > "games for the blind" but as games of the same genre that happen to use > audio, whether that audio comes from sapi, screen reading software or voice > > acting. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
