After reading that info. I can only say that if you have to go
through that much or more memorizing key patterns for each game or
player. When does it become fun with that much of a learning curve?
I don't mind reading a manual for a game. But when most of the feed
back you get is a sound or nothing is not my thrill to games.
i can grab those sounds and program them to play on my computer. Now
to someone just listening. it would sound like game play, but its just sounds.
At 04:25 PM 2/6/2012, you wrote:
Hi clemment.
Interesting questions, I don't take them as antagonistic, ----
remember that debating such issues is what I spend a lot of my time doing.
On the matter of menues, they may "not take much memorization when
your used to them" but they still take some, and that "when your
used to them is quite telling"
A ten year old child who'd never played a beatemup before could
instantly go and play streetfighter, read the menues, and have
access to the game, where as that is not true for someone doing it
first time via audio.
though I do agree the "inaccessibility" of the game grows less as
you get used to such things like anything else, it's not true that
it ever utterly disappears, or that the amount of effort you expend
on it and upon other games acquiring that level of proficiency isn't
itself far more than a sighted player.
afterall, even if you are quite used to playing beatemups, you
still! will need a faq to read character prophiles and move lists,
and may well have to have the faq with you while playing, where as a
sighted player can just use the movelist option in game on the pause
menue, ---- then of course there is the sound memorization angle,
sinse a sighted player can instantly see what a given move is.
however good you are at learning the moves by sound (and I don't
dispute the fact that you can! become good), you still cannot have
that easy access, and could not unless capcom introduced some sort
of spoken interface to describe the moves to you and give you their
sounds, or some sound clues to instantly identify what a move was
without initial memorization.
As to bockerano debuken, I've not played the game yet myself
actually, sinse however we were talking about accessibility
differences betwene disabled and none disabled people, it would seem
that the menue memorization in Bockerano debuken doesn't fall into
the same catagory, sinse the relevant information that you have to
work around acquiring is not visual but Japanese, and it wouldn't
matter what sort of eyesight a person had, sinse it's the capacity
to understand Japanese here, rather than the capacity to read
printed menues and understand images displayed only graphically that
makes the difference in effort.
so, if we were to apply the term "inaccessible" to bockerano
debuken, we would say "inaccessible to English speakers" rather than
"inaccessible to disabled people" which is a very different use of
the term indeed.
Another major difference in the case of bockerano debuken, is that
where as you could! learn japanese, or at least learn enough
japanese to understand the menues in the game, there is no possible
world in which a person who is biologically unable to read printed
menues and must use memorization can expend enough effort to get around this.
You can't just "learn to read print" or "learn to see graphics" and
apply that knolidge to graphical games, the way you could learn
japanese and apply that knolidge to bockerano debuken.
Your memorization of menues and game sounds is not a substitute for
reading them, and does not give you quantatively the same effortless
experience of undrstanding and playing the game, where as your
learning of Japanese would! eventually give you the same experience
of the game as a japanese speaker would have.
Of course, both cases are similar in the sense that both are not
good situations for a lot of people, and it would be good the effort
to play both could be equalized, however where as that might be
possible with bockerano debuken if more of the game could be
translated, ---- that probably won't be with mainstream games.
Beware the grue!
dark.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clement Chou" <chou.clem...@gmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game accessibility was,Re: FINALLY! There is
a Wii game for the blind!
So technically, a game like Bokura no Dabiouken is not accessible
because you obviously have to learn the menus if you are not a
Japanese speaker. Also, the story line is completely absent for
someone who speaks any language other than Japanese. Yes, there is
an English patch, however it is just that, a patch... and does not
translate the game fully. Does this mean that is not accessible? I
don't mean to be antagonistic, I just feel that this is quite an
interesting discussion to have. One can take a fighting game and
learn the menus quite quickly, there is no need to write them down
if you can menorize even the simplest of structures. And lastly,
what big mainstream game developers has ever been known to be
reasonable on the accessibility front of things? lol Especially
Capcom. Though, Street fighter x tekken will have the character
names announced as you scroll over the character selection screen,
so you know who you are picking instead of finding out who you picked.
----- Original Message ----- From: "dark" <d...@xgam.org>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game accessibility was,Re: FINALLY! There
is a Wii game for the blind!
Hi Dan, fair enough.
perhaps though in this case, using the word "accessible" isn't
appropriate, say rather such games are playable with not too great an effort.
Beware the grue!
dark.
-----
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