On May 23, 2012, at 10:48 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers > <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >> >> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: >> >>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers >>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>> Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread and I posted my >>>> reply and discovered to my shock that they had started a graduation vote. >>>> I am shocked because I have pointed out repeatedly the project's complete >>>> lack of diversity. Virtually all the active PMC members and committers >>>> work for the same employer. I have told them several times that I would >>>> actually like to participate in the project but the way the project works >>>> is very different then every other project I am involved with at the ASF >>>> and the barriers to figure out what is actually going on is very high. >>>> Almost nothing is discussed directly on the dev list - it is all done >>>> through Jira issues or the Review tool. While all the Jira issue updates >>>> and reviews are sent to the dev list most of that is just noise. Feel >>>> free to review the dev list archives to see what I am talking about. >>> >>> I don't follow flume, but I'd propose to soften your objection only >>> slightly. I've met other groups of people who like a JIRA centric view >>> of the world. I suspect that if they did a bunch of other good things >>> called out below, you or others would find the JIRA business >>> digestible. Also, on the other hand, I fear that the co-employed >>> contributors are collaborating in the hallway, and the lack of the >>> context in JIRA or on the list is contributing to the problem. >> >> I have reason to doubt the collaboration in the hallway aspect and I >> certainly do not doubt everyone's good intent. I'm not objecting to the >> collaboration style as an issue preventing graduation. I'm just saying I >> find it difficult to participate with that style and that simply makes me >> wonder if that is making it harder to attract new committers. I fully >> realize that that issue might just be with me, but the fact remains that >> there is practically no diversity in the project and I cannot in good >> conscience recommend graduation for a project in that situation. >> > > Hi Ralph, Benson, et. al., some background: > > Flume is similar to Hadoop and other related projects in that it is > very jira heavy for development activity. No slouch in terms of > mailing list traffic either though (1200 last month): > http://flume.markmail.org/
Sorry I didn't include this in my prior post but here you are making my point exactly. I participate in several other Apache projects. Wading through 1200+ emails per month that are largely Jira/Review noise makes it very difficult for me to find posts that have any value. As a consequence I am largely forced to simply delete everything generated by he Review tool and Jira. And I'm a mentor. I just don't see how newcomers are going to find this style welcoming. Ralph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
