+1
> -----Original Message----- > From: Luke Han [mailto:luke...@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 4:46 AM > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal > > > My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a "this is why > > RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why RocketMQ > > differs from them" approach. > > > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ > > communities to build cross platform clients? > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend > > persistence stores? > > I'm afraid such question will misleading ASF's position for new project > especially from a new community (not native English community, but maybe > biggest one of the world) who are new to ASF and trying their best to learn > and > follow the Apache Way. > > I don't think ASF community will ask every project have to use currently > Apache > project's client, library or anything else. There are many project just come > here > and grow to success without too much "cross". > > IMO, such question should go to dev@ list if it will be accepted later. or > just > send to author separately:-) > > Thanks > Luke > > > > > Best Regards! > --------------------- > > Luke Han > > On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 2:53 AM, John D. Ament <john.d.am...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:21 PM Bruce Snyder <bruce.sny...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for > > > constructive feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ > > > proposal and project > > using > > > your suggestions. > > > > > > First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von > > > Gosling, there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to > > > the Github repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging > > > activity' the history was erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to > > > mean that someone's git-fu > > went > > > awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von > > > also > > gives > > > further explanation of the project history in a response below. > > > Indeed, this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen > > > before with > > git), > > > but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to > > > improve and grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way? > > > > > > > I was simply trying to reiterate for Roman's sanity of what I > > understood happened, based on Von's email, and my understanding of it. > > I don't particularly see any concerns with it (as you mention, it > > happens all of the time), but you may want to consider removing > > notions that the software was open sourced in 2012, since it sounds like it > was more of a mistake. > > The ASF has no requirement that code coming has to be already open > > sourced, we expect an SGA to be filed with the software coming in. > > > > FWIW, I still don't have a good understanding of OMS and its > > relationship to RocketMQ. It may be relevant (e.g. a commercial > > product based on the open source product) or may be completely > > irrelevant (internal project name vs external project name). > > > > > > > > > > Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since > > > Bruce > > is > > > the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF > > > exist together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good > > > mentors, regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My > > > interest in helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my > > > interest in > > continuing > > > to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years > > experience > > > at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over > > > another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate > > > constructively with others on open source and to foster a community > > > of inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The > > > ASF is an inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn > > > from new projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code > > > and stay for the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a > > > new project and people to the ASF. > > > > > > > This is more of a concern of mine around the structure and content of > > the proposal, and how some of it potentially leads to issues for the > > eventual website around RocketMQ. While the ASF will not limit itself > > to a single product for a technological/functional area, I do see it > > as an issue that a project provides references stating why you should > > use "it" vs another Apache project. I interpret the current > > "Relationships to other Apache Products" section as being just that > > right now. My only edit to that area was to fix the moin-moin mark up > > in use, since it wasn't creating a valid table (just as an FYI). > > > > Typically when podlings come in, that section lists out the > > dependencies they have on existing ASF projects/products. Hence why I > > had responded with the list I sent out - that list is more akin to what we > usually see. > > Here's some example proposals that do that a bit cleaner from my POV: > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki. > > > apache.org%2Fincubator%2FAsterixDBProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gard > ler > > > %40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f > 141af > > > 91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941161239&sdata=y3hc8SOyjC > 6pIcAiuK > > TAEphCTYJtdPFzVTXM2iYGvK0%3D&reserved=0 > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki. > > > apache.org%2Fincubator%2FBrooklynProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardl > er% > > > 40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f1 > 41af9 > > > 1ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=7Bg23QhKnx > 1Et2Lucbk > > %2BnoH2NlbJj8NO75YjHUSNDbo%3D&reserved=0 > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki. > > > apache.org%2Fincubator%2FDistributedLogProposal&data=02%7C01%7CRoss. > Ga > > > rdler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988 > bf86f > > > 141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=%2BcI > Z7lYKHOk > > dMlms%2FoUj%2BEffRO3VyTEURHUmxPZJoHo%3D&reserved=0 > > > > As you can see there's two specific things being answered here. The > > primary being how they already play a role in the existing ecosystem > > by consuming the projects. A secondary case, which I think is what > > RocketMQ should aim to follow, is found closely in the AsterixDB > > proposal. They specifically call out how they complement other > > products (e.g. Spark, without providing a full integration) and how they > > differ > from them (e.g. > > Pig/Hive, HBase). My feeling reading RocketMQ is that its done in a > > "this is why RocketMQ is better than" approach instead of "this is why > > RocketMQ differs from them" approach. > > > > The questions I asked were meant to be leading questions - not > > necessarily answered in this proposal (or ever) but to give some ideas > > of what should be in that section. So I don't really expect the to be > > dealt with at this time, or possibly ever. > > > > As an aside, I added a link to RocketMQ to the proposals page. Saves > > secretary a step (and hassle) as we get further down the line. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good > > > suggestions for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the > proposal. > > Even > > > if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be > > > great ideas to debate around the code base and within the project > > > moving > > forward. > > > I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you > > mentioned > > > as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the > > > RocketMQ > > code > > > base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John > > > with his > > > thoughts: > > > > > > Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two > > > questions > > > specifically: > > > > > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ > > > communities > > to > > > build cross platform clients? > > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as > > > backend persistence stores? > > > > > > > > > Bruce > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament > > > <john.d.am...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik > > > > <ro...@shaposhnik.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about: > > > > > > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2 > > > > > > Fgithub.com%2Falibaba%2FRocketMQ%2Fgraphs%2Fcontributors&data=02 > > > > > > %7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40 > > > > > > 642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636140331 > 94 > > > > > > 1171248&sdata=FZwZJ3L6zXCZaD7zjVvABAaJKffHn0nvm%2FzjO3hpokA%3D& > r > > > > > eserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of > > > > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial > > > > > committers is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a > > > > > lot of time making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality > prevails. > > > > > > > > > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement: > > > > > "The source code was opened up in 2012." > > > > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well. I > > > suspect > > > > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on > > > > the product and it was kept internal. > > > > > > > > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache > > products" > > > > section still. I'm not interested in seeing how a podling > > > > competes > > with > > > > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair > > > > of > > one > > > > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies > > > > with the other components. I raised that they're using ASF > > > > projects today in > > > their > > > > code base. > > > > > > > > Some other ways to address this section: > > > > > > > > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ > > > > communities > > > to > > > > build cross platform clients? > > > > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as > > > > backend persistence stores? > > > > > > > > etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Roman. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister > > > > > <bri...@skife.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > +1 ! > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski > > > > > > <j...@jagunet.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cool. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> +1 > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder < > > bruce.sny...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling > > > > > >> > named > > > > Apache > > > > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, > > > > > >> > distributed, > > > easy > > > > > to > > > > > >> use > > > > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing > > > > > >> > large > > > amounts > > > > > of > > > > > >> > streaming data. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the > > > > > >> > following > > URL: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A > > > > > >> > > %2F%2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FRocketMQProposal&data=0 > > > > > >> > > 2%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5 > > > > > >> > > 008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C > > > > > >> > > 636140331941171248&sdata=Lrox9nCtgDyTWWb2X9z9LS2tGbytXbdjWe > > > > > >> > yRDfD5cSQ%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Bruce > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > > > >> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache. > > org > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > perl -e 'print > > > unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G- > N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );' > > > > > > ActiveMQ in Action: > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbit. > > > > ly%2F2je6cQ&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6 > a3a > > > > 7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C > 0%7C > > > > 636140331941171248&sdata=ijUwPN4i%2FSIHdWqMy9p9yvGpbJvGX24wPR0 > WyRSPq > > > sg%3D&reserved=0 > > > Blog: > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbsny > > > > der.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142ab6a > 3a7 > > > > 840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0 > %7C6 > > > > 36140331941171248&sdata=khyN21BrPdqO1XJJrGELmdv7zZXmfoRrf09S4MQ > d9I0% > > > 3D&reserved=0 > > > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbru > > > > ceblog.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C3142a > b6a > > > > 3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1% > 7C0% > > > > 7C636140331941171248&sdata=PWE97cdVSqIemvnMhHiHcu%2FA2iAKKbJ1E > JB5Ohl > > > wWjM%3D&reserved=0> > > > Twitter: > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwit > > > > ter.com%2Fbrucesnyder&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com% > 7C > > > > 3142ab6a3a7840fc3f5008d40642eef9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db > 47% > > > > 7C1%7C0%7C636140331941171248&sdata=lICqb0tK%2BU1x0Wyy8zfJYC7Pn > BfwoMd > > > zZlv9xgIELn8%3D&reserved=0 > > > > >
