Ted Husted wrote: > At this point, I'm reconciled to do more work on the Jakata site using > XML in the old-fashioned way.
I can't resonate more with your feelings. That's exactly what made me started the 'forrest' effort: the coherence on xml.apache.org and the ease of update has been slowly falling apart until now when people can't even run in on their machines without getting fonts problems (yeah, blocked by fonts problems! go figure!) > We have some unratified guidelines that expand on the ones (you?) > originally set down. No, that wasn't me to edit that page, even if much was taken from my java.apache constitution (as you indicate below), which on my side, took from the old dev.apache.org guidelines for [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/proposal.html > > If you were able to review them, I would of course very much like to > have your comments before making a final update and calling for a vote. I'm honored. I'll do it ASAP. > I would also like to add more rationale for some of the guidelines. The > recent dicussion regarding coding conventions had less to do with the > conventions themselves, and more to do with why we even have > conventions. (And having conventions, why don't we enforce them.) Good point. > As Jakarta grows, it becomes more and more important that we have better > ways to introduce peoole into the fold. Right now, there is a tendency > to make someone a Committer and let them find their own way around. At > this time, I'd like to go to work on a Committer's guidebook that would > help explain how things are done (starting with How to do a Release -- > which raised the JAR discussion the other day). Oh, gosh, you are probably unaware of the fact that I'm the one that continously pisses people off on the ASF member list (unfortunately private) about having those 'committer guidelines' up and running. James Davidson and I were the one who made the page on how to setup your SSH tunnel for CVS. Yes, this is the right direction, but people must commit to keep those guidelines up 2 date and many people (expecially apache root's) failed miserably to do it. Also we must make those easy to find. Again, Forrest will help. > I think the real solution to improving the noise:signal ratio is to move > away from the "oral (email)" tradition we have now, and move back toward > providing more grassroots documentation, as you did in the "preamble" to > the original constition. > > http://java.apache.org/main/constitution.html Absolutely. > An actual history of Jakarta might also be useful to give people a > better perspective. Here's one passages I tucked away (to be joined by > your own snippets of late). > > Pier to Jon - Thu, 21 Dec 2000 > > We've traveled a long > > way together, from my very first steps in open-source land in January 1998, > > to our marvelous meeting at the first ApacheCON in October 1998, the Jakarta > > room meeting, all JavaONEs, and all we did together to bring this project > > where it is right now. > > Pier again, same day > > And we, as the newly formed Apache Software Foundation, accepted that code > > in donation as a point of start for the Jakarta Project. I was there, in > > that meeting room, that day when we outlined how the process would have > > evolved, with Jon, Stefano and Brian. And I was there, on stage at JavaONE, > > when Patricia Sueltz announced the spinoff of the project againg with Jon, > > Stefano and Brian. If that has been a wrong decision, we four are the people > > to blame... > > A coherent history might help with many of the questions about why we do > things the way we do. (Or why we don't do some things at all.) I think > clearly documenting the Apache Way would be an important first step to > unifying the Apache Projects. Great point. I absolutely agree. > I would also like to personally commend Jon with his efforts to better > document Jakarta. He has put a lot into the Web site (probably 90%), and > we all owe him a great debt. Oh, I never even thought about questioning this. I personally owe everything to Jon: without his kind messages, I wouldn't have remained around the community enough to get the 'apache feeling' out of it. Jon and I have very different technical views and very different ways of doing software architectures and sometimes some friction develops, but all the times I land in SFO, he's the first one who I call to hang out with! :) [yeah, people, the 'rude' Jon Stevens was the one who gave Pier and I hospitality in his place when we came to ApacheCON 98 and we didn't have a place to stay since we had to pay our own expenses] Gosh, Ted, you're right, we should write this history down someplace and let people know how we came here. -- Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Friedrich Nietzsche -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
