Hello Jim, > My favorite IDE is certainly not eclipse, and probably not the best to use > with Django. The server side can be quickly written and tested independent > of the client side. I consider that a plus.
You misunderstood what gregor meant. Gregor meant that if you have a Java back-end, you can seamlessly debug your application going from the client side to the server side using any Java IDE (Eclipse, NetBeans, IDEA, etc). You cannot do this if your front-end is GWT and back-end is Python. > JSON can be made as fast and json libraries for python already exist. > So, I seriously doubt anyone is writing JSON serialization from scratch. > Your server side code probably only needs to be modified with > self.data.to_json. GWT-RPC is actually faster and smaller then JSON (unless you use JS overlays, which just calls eval). See this: http://sites.google.com/site/io/gwt-and-client-server-communication > Using a restful approach, you don't pass objects between client and server. > The stateless server serves up requests for data. No need to complicate > the issue. If you're using a front-end agnostic approach (i.e. JSON based), then you wouldn't pass objects between the client and server. However, if you are able to take advantage of GWT-RPC, with a Java back-end, you would be able to pass objects to the Java server for persistence and get objects back for data requests. This has huge advantages in code maintenance and ease of use. > Django provides a good ORM and an MVC framework. With it, about > the only thing you will need to account for is that you support json > format requests. That's an extra layer that you wouldn't have to do if you just used Django. > I would use the independence of GWT to let you choose a backend that > supports your experience. If server side development with Java is as > slow as client side development with GWT, I would suggest that there > are better alternatives for the server side. I'd argue the Java back-end has a large number of very high quality libraries that make server side development easy and efficient. However, if your experience lies in Django and Python development, you might be better off with a Django solution. Java back-ends are great for enterprise quality applications. However, if you're hacking something together, Python is better choice. GWT development is only slow if you are unfamiliar with it. Besides, GWT is a toolkit, not a framework. It's hard to compare it to Django, which already includes many features like validation, etc. GWT can be used to build said frameworks, and from there GWT apps would be a lot easier and faster to make. On Sep 15, 2:53 pm, "Jim Freeze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My comments are inline below. Please pardon me if they > are not popular to the Java perspective. > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 12:39 PM, gregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As Ian states, you can use whatever you like back end. > > > Django is a popular framework, but perhaps you should consider using > > either Django or GWT+Java since in mixing the two maybe you loose > > quite a lot. > > > 1) Being able to debug the entire application (GUI + server) from your > > favourite IDE is a very big plus - you loose that if you use Django > > back end > > My favorite IDE is certainly not eclipse, and probably not the best to use > with Django. The server side can be quickly written and tested independent > of the client side. I consider that a plus. > > > 2) GWT RPC is very fast and efficient, a big plus for GWT. You would > > need to use,say, JSON if you had a Django back end which means you > > will have to write your own JSON serialization stuff, something GWT > > RPC does for you. > > JSON can be made as fast and json libraries for python already exist. > So, I seriously doubt anyone is writing JSON serialization from scratch. > Your server side code probably only needs to be modified with > self.data.to_json. > > > 3) For each object passed between client and server, you will need to > > maintain two copies, one for Django and one in Java for GWT client. > > Using a restful approach, you don't pass objects between client and server. > The stateless server serves up requests for data. No need to complicate > the issue. > > > 4) AFAIK much of the appeal of Django (apart from its persistence > > mechanism) lies in how it binds persistent objects and other artifacts > > to UI widgets for you - you could not take advantage of this with a > > GWT UI > > Django provides a good ORM and an MVC framework. With it, about > the only thing you will need to account for is that you support json > format requests. > > > I guess if you are a Django expert and can crank out server code PDQ > > with it, there is case for mixing it with GWT, but otherwise I would > > choose one or the other. > > I would use the independence of GWT to let you choose a backend that > supports your experience. If server side development with Java is as > slow as client side development with GWT, I would suggest that there > are better alternatives for the server side. > > Jim > > > > > > > regards > > gregor > > > On Sep 15, 4:59 pm, "Jim Freeze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 7:38 AM, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > I am trying to evaluate some options for a project that has just > >> > started (but is only in the planning stages atm) and it seems that > >> > most of the complexity will be in the front end (in JavaScript), so > >> > the back end doesn't seem to matter that much anymore as it will be > >> > fairly small and be acting primarily as an interface with the > >> > database. Currently the back end is planned in Django, but could be > >> > switched to Java. > > >> I use merb (similar to Ruby on Rails) and Sequel as my ORM for the server. > >> I wrote a simple RESTful RequestBuilder and some very straightforward > >> JSON layer for my models on the client side. > > >> My time, allocated between client and server, it 99:1. GUI's (and Java) > >> are not the most succinct programming environments. I think I am coding > >> about 1K LoC on the client for about 10 LoC on the server. > > >> Jim > > >> > The question really is whether anyone has had experience with using > >> > another language in the server side while using GWT (and hence Java) > >> > on the client side code. If so, was it more painful that it would > >> > have been simply using Java for the entire application, or didn't it > >> > make much of a difference? > > >> > Regards, > > >> > John > > >> -- > >> Jim Freeze > > -- > Jim Freeze --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to Google-Web-Toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
