yes,andre betteille-his stand on ambedkar is very
different.His analysis on right/policy is much
controversial as well.
If reservation was not implemented in india,each
villages of india would have been the area of peoples
war group(I like to quote prakash ambedkar).
indian society knows its impact .
--- ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> yea i was refering to andre's stand only ..
> in positive discrimination.... here the focus s
> "upper" castes who r
> discrminated
> in reservation the focus is SC/ST?OBCs who r
> discriminated
> where will u stand?
>
> i dont consider reservation as positive
> discrmantion. for me it s
> democratisation and equal opportunities..
> a castest "upper" caste d perceive it as
> discrmination.. so goes the
> arguemtns of meritocracy of anti-reservationsists...
> and andre beteile. mn
> srinivas, narayan murthy, etc
> where do u stand?
>
>
> On 3/24/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't support prof.andre beteille's stand on
> > reservation.I just mentioned the usage of him.And
> he
> > was against that durban conference as well.
> > I wrote about this issue in frontier.Or else,you
> can
> > get it from google.
> > After all, are these upper castes getting
> reservations
> > ?their privilege?what was the merit of 19th
> century
> > upper caste students of madras presidency
> > college(dalit daiary by chandraben prasad.)
> >
> > --- ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > for me, reservation and positive discrimination
> are
> > > different...
> > > when u repeatedly use the term "positive
> > > discrimination" instead of
> > > "reservation", i think, it s a politiacl
> statement
> > > from a brahmincal stand
> > > point... (and u belive that there is
> discrmination
> > > against the "upper"
> > > caste// then u have evry right to use it... but
> i
> > > disagree....and everyone
> > > knows andre betteile's stand on reservation to
> > > Sc/sts/obcs)
> > >
> > > my prbolm is with the imagination "dalits are
> not
> > > capable of "... they r
> > > capable of any thing
> > > the problm does not lies with them, but in the
> > > structural inequalities
> > > instead of addressing it the state/ngo/civil
> society
> > > blame the marginallised
> > > and make them convenient preys of "social
> Uplift"
> > > ... this is no sense deny
> > > the role of state or other machinaries, but the
> > > frmwork they emply seem to
> > > be problematic....which need to be chnged//
> > > chitralekha case is a good
> > > example...
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/23/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Prof.andre beteile gave this coinage to indian
> > > social
> > > > thinking.
> > > > --- venukm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Ranju,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Hegemonic imaginations of such schemes
> about
> > > the
> > > > > marginalized have to
> > > > > be contested.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is absolutely no disagreement.
> > > > >
> > > > > <1."It won't be in the interests of dalits
> to
> > > assume
> > > > > that they can't
> > > > > possibly flourish without it"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am afraid there is a little ambiguity
> > > regarding
> > > > > what is meant by
> > > > > 'it'.
> > > > > If 'it' means &includes
> > > > > all those well intentioned interventions and
> > > > > positive measures by an
> > > > > inclusive State with a view to redeeming to
> > > dalits
> > > > > everything they had
> > > > > long been forcibly deprived of,i will rather
> > > > > maintain that their
> > > > > interests will not be jeopardized by 'it'.
> > > > > Because of the factors of voilent
> historical
> > > > > deprivations against
> > > > > them and the continuation of such social
> order
> > > till
> > > > > the present ,their
> > > > > being
> > > backward,socially,educationally,economically
> > > > > and in many other
> > > > > ways,
> > > > > is far from just being someone's assemption.
> > > > > As large sections of the population and in
> the
> > > > > absence of some
> > > > > measures of "positive discrimination", that
> they
> > > are
> > > > > not capable of
> > > > > inching ahead to social ascendancy
> > > > > is a truth independent of anybody's
> assumption.
> > > > >
> > > > > This does not mean (at least, in my
> reference)
> > > that
> > > > > the State or other
> > > > > social actors should attempt to deny the
> dalits
> > > the
> > > > > right to have
> > > > > say , or to air theie own visions of
> progress .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <2."Is there discrimination? How?"
> > > > > This is a question which i wish to address
> only
> > > in a
> > > > > restricted
> > > > > sense,in the context of the idea of
> "positive
> > > > > discrimination".You will
> > > > > agree, this is not a special coinage
> invented by
> > > > > me.To my
> > > > > understanding this just another expression
> to
> > > > > signify the provision
> > > > > for statutory reservation.I don't know
> whether
> > > there
> > > > > is essential
> > > > > distinction between these concepts of
> "positive
> > > > > discrimination" and
> > > > > "reservation",for that matter.THese are seen
> > > > > theoratically espoused by
> > > > > the US and the Indain sysytems of governance
> > > > > respectively ,purportedly
> > > > > for achieving social parity.
> > > > > Nevertheless ,there is one thing that
> > > immediately
> > > > > cathes our
> > > > > attention.While in the White dominated West
> a
> > > > > genuinely displayed and
> > > > > transparent commitment in letter and spirirt
> to
> > > such
> > > > > legislations is
> > > > > rather perceptible,the Brahmaical or
> > > > > quasi-Brahmanical Indian State
> > > > > is unfortunately unique in its equivocalism
> > > > > ,abuse,and disrespect
> > > > > toward its own constitution.As a result of
> this
> > > > > ,reservation has
> > > > > lately come to be viewed most skeptically.
> This
> > > in
> > > > > my opinion,is the
> > > > > real danger.Perhaps this brand new
> > > skepticism(shall
> > > > > we call it 'post
>
=== message truncated ===
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