I agree on Windows we seem to be in a Microsoft first world from an
accessibility standpoint, but this is because of market share more so
than because Microsoft puts out the OS, screen reader and applications.
MS Office has a huge market share in the office suite space, so the
screen readers focus on making MS Office accessible. A minor example is
AIM. Back in the day, AIM was the big player in the instant messaging
space, and it was the most accessible instant messaging application at
the time.
Are you saying that Apple is a "hugely" more accessible interface as
well as being more intuitive? Is it hugely more accessible because
VocieOver comes with the OS or is the OS/VoiceOver combination a hugely
more accessible combination than Windows and Window Eyes?
It sounds like Apple has a great story for the home user, but what about
at the office? I'm not criticizing; I'm just asking. How well does it
work with the major business communication suites like Outlook or Lotus
Notes? What about office suites like MS Office?
--
Christopher
[email protected]
On 9/2/2010 8:06 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
At this point, with how accessible and easy to use Apple products are,
I would be okay with Apple first. Right now it is Microsoft first, and
a switch to a hugely more accessible, not to mention more intuitive,
interface would be just fine with me.
On 9/2/10, Christopher Chaltain<[email protected]> wrote:
Isn't this also true with Windows and Linux? Aren't there similarly
documented API's for those OS's, and yet not every Linux and Window
application is accessible. I guess I could fight that battle for every
application I want to use or my employer requires me to use, but
thankfully for now, FS and GW Micro have been able to work with and
support those applications who, for whatever reason, don't fully support
those API's yet.
There's also the issue of conflicting standards or evolving standards
and whether Apple can keep up or even chooses to participate.
Apple has done a great job, and I love their commitment to
accessibility. I have some concerns though that I'll be buying into an
Apple only or Apple first world. I could be totally wrong though, and if
my concerns are unfounded, no one would be happier than me.
--
Christopher
[email protected]
On 9/1/2010 10:21 PM, Alex Hall wrote:
Well, for what it is worth, in many cases it is not up to Apple to
support anything, it is up to the developer of the program. Apple
exposes all the necessary functions to let programmers interact
directly with VO, plus you have the common controls (buttons and other
GUI controls) that VO knows about across all programs. If Firefox is
not accessible on a Mac (and I have no idea if it is or not), then
Mozilla is the company to which to complain, not Apple. This is the
beauty of a built-in screen reader: if done right (the right functions
and properties are exposed via a publically documented API) then the
ball is put back in the developers' court to make their programs work.
On 9/1/10, randy black<[email protected]> wrote:
Chris, your point is valid but there is something truly liberating about
buying a Mac and having the screen reader work right out of the box
without
having to pay another 3 or 4 figure price to make the computer meet our
needs. You do have a point about Apple not having a great incentive to
support products other than its own. That's why I purchased Vmware
Fusion
and installed it on the Mac. I then got Windows 7 installed on the
machine
and I can in either platform. I know some can't afford this option either
so
I feel fortunate I can do so. If I were on a limited budget, I'd start
with
a Mac and build from there. And if the person writing the earlier post
feels
ill used by GW Micro, they have more options now than they have had
before.
A couple of years back, the Mac wasn't useful at all by blind folks.
I'm a mere computer user so my opinion is worth even less than yours.
Smile.
Randy Black
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Chaltain [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen
Readers Discussion Panel Questions
I'm not sold on the idea of a screen reader being included in the OS,
although I admit Apple has done a good job. My problem with this approach
is
that there's no incentive for Apple to support anything other than Apple
products. What if I want to use Firefox instead of Safari or a media
player
other than iTunes or a third party email client or PIM or so on.
I also think JAWS and Window Eyes are vastly more robust than Narrator. I
would not have the job I have today if it wasn't for JAWS and or Window
Eyes.
Since the original poster doesn't talk about the changes they'd like to
see,
or how they could make Window Eyes better, it's impossible to know what
they're talking about. After working in the software development field
for
almost 25 years, I'm certain GW Micro has some talented and dedicated
programmers working on Window Eyes. I'm also certain they've overcome
quite
a few technical challenges in the years they've developed and supported a
Windows based screen reader. I'm sure someone could come in and make some
superficial changes on top of the base that's already there, but that's
doing a disservice to the years of development that's already gone into
Window Eyes.
Although I'm sure GW Micro has some business savvyness, I wouldn't go as
far
to use the terms "exploit" or "conspiracy".
Just my $0.02, if it's even worth that much.
--
Christopher
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Lingo [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen
Readers Discussion Panel Questions
Then why haven't you come out with something better and cheaper?
Kim Lingo
At 03:01 PM 9/1/2010, you wrote:
"GW Micro believes that having a free screen reader as part of the
operating system does a disservice to Blind computer users."
I thought this to be a hypocritical viewpoint. Somewhat charlatanistic.
It is highly prejudicial to exclude low income users, or encourage
an over priced payment plan like some sort of layaway. The price is
highly debatable. It's seems to have to many zeroes.
I think it's a typo, but no one seems to see it. (pun intended)
The program itself is not even practical, nor signifigantly better
than the windows narrotor for common use.
Perhaps I should write the Obama administration to see what he
thinks about GW micros position on affordable pricing of screen
readers for the blind/disabled.
If the president tested Window Eyes head to head with "real"
software for the blind, he would have to "keep it real" and tell you
exactly as I have. If not then we have a conspiracy on our hands,
where the blind are being held back on purpose for extra
profits. Or possibly for backdoor code abilities that rely on
accessibility to mask their true intent.
I will not allow exploitation of the blind, in any case.
Window Eyes could be much better within a couple months of work.
I mean several times better than it is right now. I know this for a
fact because I am a developer that has done it. I'd crumple WE, and
throw it in the trash if I were blind.
GW probably knows it too, but keeps it secret from the users,
because they just don't want to spend the time required to fully
wrap their heads arround it. Or they can't, yet still want to enjoy
the positive cash flow. The price shows the greed, not crafsmanship.
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