Because they do not work with voice over > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary King [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 09:40 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of > Screen Readers Discussion Panel Questions > > I have listened to a number of podcasts on Blind Cool Tech and other > sites > about the Mac, and I am quite impressed with the level of accessibility > with > VoiceOver to the operating system and many Apple and Third-party > applications. As a retired rehab engineer, however, I am disappointed > in > the lack of any demonstrations of how well the Mac with VoiceOver > functions > with office-type applications. All of the podcasts seem to be about > the > applications you might use at home such as an Internet browser, email > programs, messaging programs etc. I never hear anyone demoing a > spreadsheet, relational database or a word processor equivalent to MS > Word. > In fact, I've never heard MS Office mentioned by Mac users. Everyone > doing > these podcasts seem to be playing with the MAC rather than working with > it > to make a living. > > The Mac may be fine for the home user and for some people who do > audio-related tasks professionally, but it seems to me that it has a > way to > go before it can be used in an office environment successfully. I > would be > glad to hear that this is not the case. > > Gary King > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Chaltain" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of > Screen > Readers Discussion Panel Questions > > > > I agree on Windows we seem to be in a Microsoft first world from an > > accessibility standpoint, but this is because of market share more so > than > > because Microsoft puts out the OS, screen reader and applications. MS > > Office has a huge market share in the office suite space, so the > screen > > readers focus on making MS Office accessible. A minor example is AIM. > Back > > in the day, AIM was the big player in the instant messaging space, > and it > > was the most accessible instant messaging application at the time. > > > > Are you saying that Apple is a "hugely" more accessible interface as > well > > as being more intuitive? Is it hugely more accessible because > VocieOver > > comes with the OS or is the OS/VoiceOver combination a hugely more > > accessible combination than Windows and Window Eyes? > > > > It sounds like Apple has a great story for the home user, but what > about > > at the office? I'm not criticizing; I'm just asking. How well does it > work > > with the major business communication suites like Outlook or Lotus > Notes? > > What about office suites like MS Office? > > > > -- > > > > Christopher > > [email protected] > > > > > > On 9/2/2010 8:06 AM, Alex Hall wrote: > >> At this point, with how accessible and easy to use Apple products > are, > >> I would be okay with Apple first. Right now it is Microsoft first, > and > >> a switch to a hugely more accessible, not to mention more intuitive, > >> interface would be just fine with me. > >> > >> On 9/2/10, Christopher Chaltain<[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Isn't this also true with Windows and Linux? Aren't there > similarly > >>> documented API's for those OS's, and yet not every Linux and Window > >>> application is accessible. I guess I could fight that battle for > every > >>> application I want to use or my employer requires me to use, but > >>> thankfully for now, FS and GW Micro have been able to work with and > >>> support those applications who, for whatever reason, don't fully > support > >>> those API's yet. > >>> > >>> There's also the issue of conflicting standards or evolving > standards > >>> and whether Apple can keep up or even chooses to participate. > >>> > >>> Apple has done a great job, and I love their commitment to > >>> accessibility. I have some concerns though that I'll be buying into > an > >>> Apple only or Apple first world. I could be totally wrong though, > and if > >>> my concerns are unfounded, no one would be happier than me. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Christopher > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/1/2010 10:21 PM, Alex Hall wrote: > >>>> Well, for what it is worth, in many cases it is not up to Apple to > >>>> support anything, it is up to the developer of the program. Apple > >>>> exposes all the necessary functions to let programmers interact > >>>> directly with VO, plus you have the common controls (buttons and > other > >>>> GUI controls) that VO knows about across all programs. If Firefox > is > >>>> not accessible on a Mac (and I have no idea if it is or not), then > >>>> Mozilla is the company to which to complain, not Apple. This is > the > >>>> beauty of a built-in screen reader: if done right (the right > functions > >>>> and properties are exposed via a publically documented API) then > the > >>>> ball is put back in the developers' court to make their programs > work. > >>>> > >>>> On 9/1/10, randy black<[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Chris, your point is valid but there is something truly > liberating > >>>>> about > >>>>> buying a Mac and having the screen reader work right out of the > box > >>>>> without > >>>>> having to pay another 3 or 4 figure price to make the computer > meet > >>>>> our > >>>>> needs. You do have a point about Apple not having a great > incentive to > >>>>> support products other than its own. That's why I purchased > Vmware > >>>>> Fusion > >>>>> and installed it on the Mac. I then got Windows 7 installed on > the > >>>>> machine > >>>>> and I can in either platform. I know some can't afford this > option > >>>>> either > >>>>> so > >>>>> I feel fortunate I can do so. If I were on a limited budget, I'd > start > >>>>> with > >>>>> a Mac and build from there. And if the person writing the earlier > post > >>>>> feels > >>>>> ill used by GW Micro, they have more options now than they have > had > >>>>> before. > >>>>> A couple of years back, the Mac wasn't useful at all by blind > folks. > >>>>> I'm a mere computer user so my opinion is worth even less than > yours. > >>>>> Smile. > >>>>> Randy Black > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Christopher Chaltain [mailto:[email protected]] > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:55 PM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: RE: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future > of > >>>>> Screen > >>>>> Readers Discussion Panel Questions > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not sold on the idea of a screen reader being included in the > OS, > >>>>> although I admit Apple has done a good job. My problem with this > >>>>> approach > >>>>> is > >>>>> that there's no incentive for Apple to support anything other > than > >>>>> Apple > >>>>> products. What if I want to use Firefox instead of Safari or a > media > >>>>> player > >>>>> other than iTunes or a third party email client or PIM or so on. > >>>>> > >>>>> I also think JAWS and Window Eyes are vastly more robust than > >>>>> Narrator. I > >>>>> would not have the job I have today if it wasn't for JAWS and or > >>>>> Window > >>>>> Eyes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Since the original poster doesn't talk about the changes they'd > like > >>>>> to > >>>>> see, > >>>>> or how they could make Window Eyes better, it's impossible to > know > >>>>> what > >>>>> they're talking about. After working in the software development > field > >>>>> for > >>>>> almost 25 years, I'm certain GW Micro has some talented and > dedicated > >>>>> programmers working on Window Eyes. I'm also certain they've > overcome > >>>>> quite > >>>>> a few technical challenges in the years they've developed and > >>>>> supported a > >>>>> Windows based screen reader. I'm sure someone could come in and > make > >>>>> some > >>>>> superficial changes on top of the base that's already there, but > >>>>> that's > >>>>> doing a disservice to the years of development that's already > gone > >>>>> into > >>>>> Window Eyes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Although I'm sure GW Micro has some business savvyness, I > wouldn't go > >>>>> as > >>>>> far > >>>>> to use the terms "exploit" or "conspiracy". > >>>>> > >>>>> Just my $0.02, if it's even worth that much. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Christopher > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Kim Lingo [mailto:[email protected]] > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:30 PM > >>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>> Subject: [GW-Booksense] Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of > Screen > >>>>> Readers Discussion Panel Questions > >>>>> > >>>>> Then why haven't you come out with something better and cheaper? > >>>>> Kim Lingo > >>>>> At 03:01 PM 9/1/2010, you wrote: > >>>>>> "GW Micro believes that having a free screen reader as part of > the > >>>>>> operating system does a disservice to Blind computer users." > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I thought this to be a hypocritical viewpoint. Somewhat > >>>>>> charlatanistic. > >>>>>> It is highly prejudicial to exclude low income users, or > encourage > >>>>>> an over priced payment plan like some sort of layaway. The > price is > >>>>>> highly debatable. It's seems to have to many zeroes. > >>>>>> I think it's a typo, but no one seems to see it. (pun intended) > >>>>>> The program itself is not even practical, nor signifigantly > better > >>>>>> than the windows narrotor for common use. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Perhaps I should write the Obama administration to see what he > >>>>>> thinks about GW micros position on affordable pricing of screen > >>>>>> readers for the blind/disabled. > >>>>>> If the president tested Window Eyes head to head with "real" > >>>>>> software for the blind, he would have to "keep it real" and tell > you > >>>>>> exactly as I have. If not then we have a conspiracy on our > hands, > >>>>>> where the blind are being held back on purpose for extra > >>>>>> profits. Or possibly for backdoor code abilities that rely on > >>>>>> accessibility to mask their true intent. > >>>>>> I will not allow exploitation of the blind, in any case. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Window Eyes could be much better within a couple months of work. > >>>>>> I mean several times better than it is right now. I know this > for a > >>>>>> fact because I am a developer that has done it. I'd crumple WE, > and > >>>>>> throw it in the trash if I were blind. > >>>>>> GW probably knows it too, but keeps it secret from the users, > >>>>>> because they just don't want to spend the time required to fully > >>>>>> wrap their heads arround it. Or they can't, yet still want to > enjoy > >>>>>> the positive cash flow. The price shows the greed, not > crafsmanship. > >>>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > >>>>> sender > >>>>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list andyour > message > >>>>> is > >>>>> related to GW Micro or the BookSense, then please consider > sending > >>>>> your > >>>>> message to [email protected] so the entire list will > receive > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> To manage your subscription to gw-booksense, visit: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > >>>>> sender > >>>>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list andyour > message > >>>>> is > >>>>> related to GW Micro or the BookSense, then please consider > sending > >>>>> your > >>>>> message to [email protected] so the entire list will > receive > >>>>> it. > >>>>> > >>>>> To manage your subscription to gw-booksense, visit: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > > > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender > > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list andyour message > is > > related to GW Micro or the BookSense, then please consider sending > your > > message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive > it. > > > > To manage your subscription to gw-booksense, visit: > > > > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv > > > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list andyour > message is related to GW Micro or the BookSense, then please consider > sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list > will receive it. > > To manage your subscription to gw-booksense, visit: > > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list andyour message is related to GW Micro or the BookSense, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. To manage your subscription to gw-booksense, visit: http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv
