Your going to make him lose his job by suggesting such a thing. On 5/12/05, Karen Bennet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Gerry, > > Additional help in testing is always welcome. However, > > your posting makes me wonder why Sun wouldn't enable > this project to leapfrog whose 4-5 years to a product > like Tiger by donating the missing pieces. This > would enable the community to work alongside Sun in > the development of mustang and dolphin in an > collaborative development model. I'm not sure if > feasibility or not > but you did say if there was anything that you could > do to help ... maybe an internal Sun employee might > have a better chance of convincing their employer that > collaboration around this technology would benefit > them and potentially get Java development accelerated > with future ideas. > > P.S. I know there have been many before who have asked > for this same request; but here's hoping that its > reconsidered. > > > --- Gerry Steele <gegerrytsteelemgmailom> wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I actually did seem a bit cynical there. > > > > I forgot to mention that if there is anything I can > > do to help let me know > > or perhaps I'll keep an eye on the lists. I've > > experience with the JCJCK > > other tests so I could be useful in the QA area > > considering it's quite an > > esoteric task. I do believe that variety and > > competition is good in software > > for everyone. Though I do feel a bit sorry for sun.. > > they put up the money > > to develop and create the Java world we have now and > > everyone seems to want > > it for their own. And they don't exactly ask for a > > lot from users..... just > > remember that the nearest competitor costs a small > > fortune. > > > > Another sisidenotes Project Peabody. All those bugs > > in Mustang that have > > been bothering you are now open to anyone to submit > > fixes. > > > hthttp/jajavaun.com/developer/tetechnicalArticles2SE/pepeabody > > > > And you get a free t-shirt when you contribute! > > > > Gerry > > > > On 5/12/05, FaFaeLLemrmrbillcollectormgmailom> > > wrote: > > > > > > Very inintrestingnd well noted writeup sir an > > insight from a Sun employee > > > is always a bonus. > > > > > > I will for sure followup comments on this article > > and see what the > > > community has to say on this post. > > > > > > On 5/11/05, Gerry Steele < gegerrytsteelemgmailom> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm a big fan of the Apache foundation but this > > is one product I'm not > > > > too > > > > sure is such a good idea as of yet for reasons > > several: > > > > > > > > >> Deprecated or non deprecated, we want Harmony > > to pass the TCTCKso > > > > > >> whatever the TCTCKants us to do, we'll do > > it. > > > > > > > > I hope you understand what sticking to the > TCTCK> entails. When it comes to > > > > > > > > implementing GUI stuff for instance, your > > platform will have to fully > > > > copy > > > > the official JVJVM'swing/AWAWTidgets and all > > other details in order for > > > > the > > > > automation and robot driven tests to pass. The > > JCJCKetestbaseor tiger is > > > > > > > > immense. To get it setup and run is a skill on > > its own. To get it to > > > > pass > > > > all tests takes a serious am mount of tweaking > > and a nonoteablenowledge > > > > of > > > > the jajavatestarness. It will require > > implementations on things as > > > > extensive > > > > as COCORBAnd RMRMIWe would need passive agents, > > tntnameervers etc. > > > > > > > > Also, when running the TCTCKear in mind that > > you'll have to run the > > > > harness > > > > with the Sun VMVM > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about the particular extent of the > > tetestsuiterovided with > > > > the > > > > TCTCKou guys are talking about (if there is > > interest can find out more), > > > > but > > > > the JCJCKwhich is basically a TCTCKor the entire > > J2SE jrjrend jdjdkill > > > > be > > > > going on impossible to pass for an alternative > > imimplmentations > > > > everything > > > > is written with the Sun JDJDKRJREn mind and test > > cases are adapted in > > > > ways > > > > that will create an infinite unpredictable > > series of problems when > > > > trying to > > > > adapt your code. > > > > > > > > Another reason is that I'm not quite sure I see > > the point. It will take > > > > 4-5 > > > > years or more to even come close to a product > > like tiger. Sun are > > > > already > > > > working heavily on mustang and dolphin (to a > > lesser degree on the > > > > latter). > > > > As well as this, sun research have many projects > > looking at the future > > > > of > > > > the Java VMVMuch as the Barcelona project which > > will drastically change > > > > the > > > > implementation of the JVJVMFor instance to make > > it more network > > > > orientated > > > > or to improve resource sharing. > > > > > > > > The latter things (which are yet to see real sun > > implementation) might > > > > be > > > > something you guys might then want to take > > advantage of in order to > > > > leverage > > > > a selling point of Harmony. Without something > > like that it's just > > > > another > > > > attempt at a VMVMhat will be playing catch-up > > forever. > > > > > > > > Also, don't forget about quality. Sun put a > > serious amount of money and > > > > manpower into ensuring the quality and > > compatibility of the JVJVMA lot > > > > of > > > > corporations depend on this. They have a regular > > update release cycle. > > > > For > > > > instance we are currently working on 1.3.1_16, > > 1.4.2_09, 5.0_04 & 5.0_05 > > > > . > > > > > > > > In a project of this size some of the the test > > suites take several days > > > > to > > > > run. Some take many many hours of man power. For > > excessive thoroughness > > > > there also manual JCJCKnd regression test > > suites. Which, trust me, will > > > > not > > > > be performed by someone who isn't being paid for > > it. Things like this > > > > don't > > > > fit well with the community model. > > > > > > > > Another worry I have is that the effort here > > might be better redirect to > > > > > > > > some other project. We already have Java. Even > > if harmony does make it > > > > to a > > > > ususeableelease people will still prefer to use > > the Sun VMVMIt will be > > > > the > > > > platform people build on and it will be the one > > they trust. > > > > > > > > I'll be very interested in how this turns out. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > > 1) speed > > > > > > > > > > 2) portability (jajavas claimed to run > > 'everywhere', but in fact, it > > > > > runs only on a few operating systems, even > > fewer for 1.5) > > > > > > > > > > 3) coconfigurabilityI might want to tune it > > differently and, for > > > > > example, choose different thread/GCGCodels) > > > > > > > > > > 4) implementation ststategyin mamacosxmultiple > > JVJVMshare 80% of their > > > > > > > > > memory, and some of Swing is native, therefore > > feels like the rest of > > > > > the OS and it's hardware accelerated) > > > > > > > > > > 5) internal modularity (we want diversity of > > implementation to drive > > > > > innovation in the VMVMpace, both in and out > > companies and > > > === message truncated === > > Discover Yahoo! > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! > http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html >
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