Scott, I couldn't have said it better. My impression has always been
that HOpenGL looks like OpenGL would have looked like if they'd had a
flexible language to work with when they desgned it. My only quibble
would be with the documentation. Is there any way out there for
haddock to produce a linked and indexed PDF, so that I can better
guess where one function will be relative to another that feels like
it ought to be related?
It is probably a bit obscured in the alphabetically sorted Haddock
main contents listing, but if you look at something like
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/OpenGL/Graphics-Rendering-OpenGL-GL.html
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/GLUT/Graphics-UI-GLUT.html
you'll find that the layout closely follows the relevant specs (at least,
it used to). So you can use the PDF files for the official specs to find what
you need, and then those doc layout pages to translate to HOpenGL.
Just as the examples follow the red book, to make translation easy.
Do I need to mention that I agree with Scott?-)
Claus
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:42 PM, scodil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'll chime in with a "me too". I use Haskell and OpenGL for prototyping
scientific visualization software, 3D models and such. Not that I think it
couldn't be used for production software, its just that I just don't produce
much :)
The library really is fantastic. I don't think it gets enough fanfare. The
only
other GL API that rivals it is the C API itself. Most other languages
provide a
shoddy & incomplete interface to that, instead of an idiomatic
interpretation of the OpenGL spec. I can't think of a single language, not
even
python, whose OpenGL bindings come close.
I get the impression (from a inadequate sample of irc logs and list chatter)
that many Haskellers see HOpenGL as 'just an OpenGL binding', like it was
readline or curses or something. It just plugs a hole in the Haskell/OS
interface, and its worth is merely a function of the size and importance of
that hole. Instead I advocate, as Claus and others have done, that it's a
shining example of how to write a Haskell interface to a well known API.
If you never used C OpenGL and learned GL using Haskell, you might not
notice
anything special about it. But that's kind of my point, its just so damn
good
it blends into the background. The only people who notice this, I think, are
experienced C OpenGL programmers, and the overlap between them and the
Haskell
community in general is small I bet. Their voice in that community smaller
still.
This probably has little bearing on the issue of whether to keep or drop
HOpenGL in the near future, but I think that if 'the community' (or whoever
has
a say in these things) like the style of HOpenGL, and want to encourage
bindings to be written in that style, they should place the library
prominently
in the pantheon of Haskell libs. Demoting it has the opposite effect.
Anyway, I just wanted to take advantage of a rare opportunity to sing its
praise.
Scott
Yes, same here; don't worry, it's not going away. It would be nice
to know, though, how many people are using it and what they're using
it for. I'm using it for information visualization, and slowly
evolving/cribbing together something like the Processing
(http://www.processing.org) framework for Haskell as I do more things.
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:46 AM, Alberto Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Don Stewart wrote:
claus.reinke:
But neither do I believe the rumour that OpenGL isn't much
used, and forwarding the removal notice gives those users the
opportunity to speak up now if they prefer no gaps in OpenGL presence,
or
forever to hold their peace, as they say.
I for one have noticed this library *is* actively used. Many of the fun
new games that have appeared are using it, in particular.
Such as:
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/frag
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Monadius
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/roguestar-gl
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/rsagl
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/Shu-thing
http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/topkata
The tutorial was also translated to the wiki last week,
http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Opengl
It's a good, reliable package, in active use, widely ported.
I'd just like to say that HOpenGL is essential for me. It is one of the
reasons why I finally decided to use Haskell for all my work...
Alberto
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