Thanks... did that... also boat builders... nada but special equipment-needed manufacturing grade special-stuff.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Bruiser Smith <smyth...@gmail.com> wrote: > From what I've read in this thread > http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-adhesive-do-i-use-vinyl-228613.html > maybe check with a local automotive upholstery shop. Read through there but > they say that 3M Top & Trim adhesive is also good. Or, if you can't get > either due to California law, check with the upholsterer to see their > recommendations. > > > On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 2:04:19 PM UTC-6, BurnerDan wrote: > >> Interesting-looking product. Commercial grade? Don't know about you, >> but I'm in California - where it can't be shipped... or sold? I talked >> with the DAP factory rep who assured me that the Original Contact Cement >> was the best I could buy. The can says "High heat resistance." >> >> If the material your link talks about is available, I'd love to know how >> to get some. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Bruiser Smith <smyt...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Did you use the DAP Weldwood HHR Contact Cement specifically? >>> >>> http://www.yourautotrim.com/noname37.html >>> >>> It seems like it's highly recommended for vinyl applications for car >>> interiors as it's rated for 250F. >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 1:18:52 PM UTC-6, BurnerDan wrote: >>> >>>> Watch out for contact cement losing it in high heat! I used it (the >>>> original non-water-based - because DAP recommended it over the water >>>> version) to attach vinyl fabric in my interior build-out of my Sprinter >>>> here in LA (where we see Burning Man temps). It started off looking great, >>>> seemed to have an excellent bond to metal, wood, etc. When it started >>>> letting go a year or so later, I asked around and sure enough, it's not >>>> that uncommon. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Bruiser Smith <smyt...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Jacob - >>>>> >>>>> I've read your posts on here, the guide and videos on your Google >>>>> Drive, as well as your posts on Eplaya. First off - thank you for putting >>>>> together such a comprehensive guide! I am looking to apply this to my >>>>> pentayurt (H10) this year, and have a couple questions which would greatly >>>>> help me out: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. What are your thoughts following the method of foil taping the >>>>> edges rather than using masking tape or contact cement? I already have >>>>> a >>>>> large roll of 3" foil. >>>>> 2. For the 'loose' hinges, did you use both 7 inch on the inside >>>>> as well as the outside? >>>>> 3. Thoughts on using vinyl/cc hinges for doors & windows? >>>>> 4. For my structure, which needs longer lengths of vinyl, can't I >>>>> just buy a few yards of vinyl and cut them length-wise? >>>>> 5. Thoughts on using a hand roller to minimize bubbles? http://www. >>>>> istscientific.com/user/products/large/quickseal-hand-roller.jpg >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.istscientific.com/user/products/large/quickseal-hand-roller.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Again I can't thank you enough for putting together all of the >>>>> resources that you have!!!! >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:45:17 PM UTC-6, Jacob Rodriguez wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, not sure about "tap plastics". The stuff I'm buying is used >>>>>> for covering furniture, or used as storm windows or whatever. Marine >>>>>> vinyl >>>>>> is really good. I used to think it was 4 gauge vinyl, but it's actually >>>>>> 12 >>>>>> gauge. Probably best to make sure it's UV treated, but mine doesn't say >>>>>> specifically and is proving itself quite well outside for the past month >>>>>> or >>>>>> so. No cracking or getting hard or anything. Anything that is sold to be >>>>>> used outdoors is what you're looking for. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's a link to Amazon to give you an idea of what you want: >>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/No-Manufacturer-Gauge-Clear-Viny >>>>>> l/dp/B003ZFA4LM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373261515&sr=8-1&key >>>>>> words=12+gauge+vinyl >>>>>> >>>>>> I've also just updated a document that explains a lot of stuff here >>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x-PUR8OMG-4_uxGuXYmoctYTdwBAl8R0mYkJc0gnCYY/edit?usp=sharing>. >>>>>> One thing I just learned is not to use the "eco friendly" contact cement >>>>>> that cleans up with water. Use the hardcore stuff. I'm all for saving the >>>>>> environment, but the 'Woodweld' in a green can is not what you want >>>>>> (takes >>>>>> too long to get tacky and dry). Find the "original" stuff in the red can >>>>>> if >>>>>> you can. >>>>>> >>>>>> Using 4 vs 6 inches is up to you. I'm personally going with 4 inches >>>>>> for my tight hinges (giving me 2 inches of contact on either board) and >>>>>> then 7 inch strips on my loose hinges (3 inches will be taken up by my >>>>>> board thickness (1.5"), and then 2" on each surface). In my experience, >>>>>> that seems to be plenty strong. See my tests >>>>>> <https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9akv0Z5bU-IazJmZ2NHa2l3dVU&usp=sharing> >>>>>> (labeled >>>>>> "Test") on various things. Those prototypes only have 1.5 inches on each >>>>>> board, and some of that is over masking tape, reducing their adhesion; >>>>>> they >>>>>> hold up pretty well. Though it never hurts to overbuild, and if you're >>>>>> doing a regular hexayurt, you won't use too much, so why not? On my quad >>>>>> dome, I have something like 136 joins/edges that need to be done, so I >>>>>> will >>>>>> require about 31 yds of the stuff. Something like that anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, July 5, 2013 10:00:32 PM UTC-7, Steve Upstill (Swifty) >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I LOVE this discussion of hinging technology and I'm sold on >>>>>>> replacing my "permanent" tape hinges with the vinyl/contact cement >>>>>>> combo--at least for purposes of experimentation. Could someone with >>>>>>> experience provide a quick buying guide for the stuff? Vinyl is a >>>>>>> many-varied beast and it would be nice to know exactly what to head >>>>>>> for. Is >>>>>>> Tap Plastics my friend in this department? Anybody have any data about >>>>>>> 4" >>>>>>> vs. 6" strips? ...and so forth... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many Thanks, >>>>>>> Steve Upstill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:17:41 PM UTC-7, Jacob Rodriguez wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, I'm going to be building a quarter sized nearodesic polyhedron >>>>>>>> ("quad") dome (1 rmax sheet = 8 triangles) for BRC this year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My foamcore and masking tape prototypes (1:12 and 1:5 scale) have >>>>>>>> been going well. I'm learning how to do the tape hinges, and how to >>>>>>>> miter >>>>>>>> the edges with a razor and angled metal guide. I'm thinking that the >>>>>>>> full >>>>>>>> size version will be relatively easy to prepare and construct. My end >>>>>>>> result is a 6' high, 12' diameter dome that folds down into a 4' x 4' >>>>>>>> x 15" >>>>>>>> high box. Minimal tape is required as all but one edge of each quad is >>>>>>>> hinged with fabric and adhesive. Only the top square, and 4 "corners" >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to be fully taped together. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm seeing lots of people commenting on how the BFT (bi-filament >>>>>>>> tape) is not really UV resistant, so it flakes off eventually. Also, >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> it's barely a semi-permanent solution, even if you do tape hinges >>>>>>>> instead >>>>>>>> of one-time assembly. I've considered many different types of ways to >>>>>>>> join >>>>>>>> the triangles that would last more than one or two times: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - zippers (needed like 400 of them, really really expensive) >>>>>>>> - button snaps and straps (would glue on the snaps to the boards, >>>>>>>> then use a strap to snap them together; this is not weather proof at >>>>>>>> all) >>>>>>>> - velcro (again, pretty expensive if you use the really good >>>>>>>> velcro, which is likely the only way to guarantee structural integrity >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> 'weatherproof-ness') >>>>>>>> - magnets (even using strong ones (N45), embedding them in the >>>>>>>> edges of the triangles, they could jsut fall out, and still not weather >>>>>>>> proof. also $$$) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ..and a couple of other ideas. I've learned that putting metal >>>>>>>> hooks/rods/bolts (binder clips) through the boards will just rip >>>>>>>> through it >>>>>>>> with a strong enough tug. They could end up just getting loose and >>>>>>>> boring >>>>>>>> out big holes. Using plus-shaped ("+") hooks/rods to fasten some sort >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> fabric over the joints are slightly better because they resist being >>>>>>>> pulled >>>>>>>> like a wire cutter through the board, but you would have holes in the >>>>>>>> board >>>>>>>> and water could get in. Also, excessive force would also just make the >>>>>>>> holes looser and ruin the boards eventually. But the idea of using some >>>>>>>> sort of fabric seems to hold merit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My main goal is to build something that can easily be packed away, >>>>>>>> and assembled multiple time. Realizing that the main principles of a >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> BM structure are to seal out rain, dust and light, I think I've come up >>>>>>>> with a possible solution, but I'm curious why I can't find anyone who >>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> tried it.* I'm hoping to get some cautionary tales or some >>>>>>>> encouragement on using sport nylon (as opposed to ripstop), and some >>>>>>>> Super >>>>>>>> 77 or 80 or 90 spray adhesive, instead of the traditional tape.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The cost might be a little more expensive up front (depending on >>>>>>>> some factors), but I'm thinking that the nylon will last much longer >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> just about any tape and is probably just as strong (if not stronger) >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> BFT. From what I've read, a lot of people end up using some 77 spray >>>>>>>> anyway >>>>>>>> because of the lubricating residue on the boards. I'm curious if it's >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> UV resistant (or at least the adhesive would be) and therefore survive >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> endless sun bathing better. Also, the concept of cutting fabric into >>>>>>>> strips >>>>>>>> and using spray adhesive as a backing gives the user many more options >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> it comes to materials (stronger fabric and/or stronger glue), rather >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> just limiting to such a rare find as 6" BFT. Though I'm sure that sport >>>>>>>> nylon "tape" is even more rare. You can also make the strips as wide >>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>> want, so you are not limited there either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've built a prototype of a hinged triangle using foamcore, sport >>>>>>>> nylon and Super 77, which seems very, very strong. Stronger than >>>>>>>> masking >>>>>>>> tape anyway. I'm thinking that while it's not waterproof out of the >>>>>>>> box, I >>>>>>>> could always spray with some scotchguard, or tape over everything with >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> foil tape. Foil tape would also help any concerns on fire-hazard as the >>>>>>>> adhesive is quite flammable. I put a hairdrier on it for about 10 mins >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> high, to see if excessive heat made the glue loosen, but it did quite >>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>> I'm thinking the higher temp ratings of 80 or 90 adhesive will help in >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> area. Maybe instead of foil tape. I can spray with some sort of coating >>>>>>>> that will protect against fire and water at the same time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For cost comparison, my project would be using about 6 rolls of >>>>>>>> 60yd tape. That's about $20 a roll. Plus about 4 rolls of foil tape >>>>>>>> (for >>>>>>>> outside only) at another $20 a roll. I'm thinking that a can of >>>>>>>> adhesive >>>>>>>> will last quite a long time, so I may only need about 3 cans at about >>>>>>>> $20 a >>>>>>>> pop. The fabric is not that expensive (maybe 5 dollars a yard), so I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> all in all, I might come out saving a little cash (if any at all), but >>>>>>>> ending up with a much more permanent/reusable solution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, what do you all think? I'm going to be purchasing a piece >>>>>>>> of polyIso to test. I'm going to make a single "quad" using this nylon >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> adhesive, then leaving it up on my roof for a week or two to see how it >>>>>>>> handles the weather. It's Santa Monica CA weather so not quite the >>>>>>>> same, >>>>>>>> but should give a good indication as to whether it will survive at all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for reading! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "hexayurt" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to hexayurt+u...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "hexayurt" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to hexayurt+u...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "hexayurt" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to hexayurt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to hexayurt@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. 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